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Don Trip And Starlito Shine A Light On Bullying In “Leash On Life”

Two years ago, Don Trip and Starlito teamed up for Step Brothers , a mixtape that paid homage to the Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly comedy of the same name, but it was hardly a joke. The initial response to the surprisingly thoughtful and nuanced tape was big for two well-respected solo artists that hadn't quite launched their careers on a major scale yet. The former was selected as a 2012 XXL Freshmen (but was left in record-label limbo soon after) and the latter built a regional buzz during his time with Cash Money. Both have remained underground favorites in hip-hop ever since.

Last week, Trip and Lito rolled out Step Brothers 2, the hard-hitting and reflective sequel to the original. The 13-track effort includes “Leash On Life,” the revealing single that addresses ongoing issues of school shootings, bullying, poverty and more. The video follows a troubled child through these scenarios and aims to reignite the conversation around these sensitive topics. In our Train of Thought, we spoke with the pair about the song’s message, its inspiration, and how it came together.— Eric Diep

Previously: Train Of Thought With Scarface, Kanye West, Pusha T

Don Trip & Starlito "Leash On Life"

Verse One (Starlito) They shooting up movies They shooting up schools Young black fools Ain’t the only ones that suit up with tools Exercising my 2nd amendment and pleading the fifth With A fifth This my second this Remy I drink, I don’t sip And the reason is this It’s fucked up out here So we out here fucked up If you make it out then you lucked up Trying to save ourselves coming from What we raised ourselves Stuck between a rock and a hard place with the razor and scale Turn wine back to grapes and its raising hell Breaking down bales Just to make bail Catching sells off a cell until you in a cell I’m just trying to prevail But only time will tell Well, niggas telling over time It ain’t no telling I ain’t lying Ain’t trying to go out like my homies did I keep that on me and I put that on my homies kid Wonder if I gonna be missed If I did a lonely bid Got homies in the pen who only focus keeping a phone hid

Hook (Kevin Gates) I respect the time I keep my sneaks on tight Head-on collision can hope he see me right through Might be locked up tomorrow but we free tonight Praying to god I get a leash on life Leash on tight Only right that we know And please don’t judge us for the path we chose Looking up to heaven; no one sending me signs Only if this was a movie I would press the rewind

Verse Two (Don Trip) He got that strap in his bag See he get bullied at school Young nigga shot dead in his class He put his school on the news Now put yourself in his shoes Walking away didn’t help He got no friends to defend him He got to fend for his self And he to skinny to fight Running away just ain’t cutting it His daddy ain’t home His momma still struggling She juggle three jobs And get no help from the government You don’t know nothing about him But you trying to sucker him Heart of a giant I’m sorry he will never back down And they gonna keep pick on him till one day he blacks out And reach in that book bag and he pull that mag out Now he get the last laugh and you’re just the class clown Tool on deck Yes I can’t help that When momma was stressing I hit my block like a tailback See we trying to make it don’t got no suits Just got cases And I need more than this dope money to leave to my babies

XXL: What inspired the both of you to write this song and treat the video in this way? Don Trip: As far as the video, actually, the whole process of that record after we created the record, we both sat down and we decided that we wanted the video to premiere before you could have access to the song. So, your first time hearing the record, it would be seeing the video. It would be more like watching a TV show and hearing the soundtrack. With the “Leash On Life” record, it’s a record that we felt to show how common our lives are to other demographics. It’s not just black people going through adversity. We are not the only people that have situations where we struggle through. When we sat down and create the record, Lito had his verse already recorded. I don’t really know what mindframe he was in when he recorded his verse. But, when it came time for me, I pretty much just followed his lead. He already steered the ship where he needed to be. I felt like he was in a great path with it. When I heard his verse, I felt like in order for me to contribute to this record, I can give it this perspective. I took advantage of that. I felt like the contents of my verse are the things we overlook the most. We don’t really know the next person’s struggle. You can’t tell by shaking so-and-so’s hand or walking pass so-and-so. I felt like me giving that, I didn’t want to just say so-and-so did this, and so-and-so did that. I wanted to break it down, I wanted to take you through it.

Lito you say, "They shooting up movies/They shooting up schools/Young black fools aren't the only ones to suit up with tools". Why did you open with that? Starlito: There’s a part of what we do where we are the journalist for our environment. I really have a hard time watching the news because it is kind of scary. It is kind of sad. There’s not good news on the news. Considering where I come from … all my life I either end up dead or in jail. By 25, that was the cliche stat. As that shit echoes in your mind, as you flip through the channels, its to the point where a school shooting, a public tragedy of some sort, or a movie shooting, there’s mass killings going monthly. It’s almost like clockwork. It was just in a front of my mind, I’m not sure from when I recorded that or something just happened. It’s like Trip said, I recorded my verse after a show. We had a show together and we went to the studio afterwards.

It was like 4 in the morning when I heard that beat. It reminded me, it put me in the mindframe of Boyz n the Hood . The closing scene where Ice Cube’s character disappears, when Doughboy disappears. Tragic ending. Because that beat make me think about that, I was thinking about the hood. I was thinking about the untold story. I was thinking about where I am. I am from the hood and I making my way out of the that mindframe and everything else. But, I just thought about how often I am stereotyped. How often people operate what is clear and present to them. I heard Scarface say how you start your verse is the most important part of a song. That comes in the opening line.

Are you guys speaking from personal experiences? Starlito: Nah, I wasn’t bullied. Not that part of it. I just think with telling somebody else’s story ...

Don Trip: Every form of being aggressive ain’t being bullied. It ain’t always the same thing. For my take on it, I involved a bit of my real life in it too. I feel like you would be the one to relate what I am saying to you by putting things I actually know about in it. I don’t think I could wrote the verse if I didn’t know about certain aspects of that.

Starlito: Considering that, there’s elements of my verse that are directly come from me. There are parts of my story that I say are pretty straightforward. I got homies in the pen [who] only focus is to keep their phone hid. That’s their reality and by default my reality too. That is something that I know about. There are different struggles going on. It’s not struggle rap for the sake of struggle rap, but its moreso like, “Man, that’s somebody else going through something different than you." Or, I might be saying something you are going through and you understand it crystal clear. I am kind of in the middle of it because I come from the place from the kids that are doing the bullying. I could have been in that classroom that this kid came and shot up because my friends used to pick on people for no reason. Because I was a cool kid. And this kid might feel like its him against the world. I am on the other side of that. I think its real to everyone.

Trip, you rap, "His dad aint' home/His momma still struggling/She juggle three jobs ain't get no help from the government.” Don Trip: That’s from my own experiences. I involve that because when you see people, you don’t know what they are going through. And a lot of times, we judge a book by its cover. That’s just how we format it for some reason. You don’t know the reason why he’s not wearing Jordans cause they can’t afford them. They just plainly can’t afford them. It’s a lot more involved in that. It’s a lot of things, a lot of misfortunes that happen in life that people never look past. People don’t understand that everything has a story behind it. Like you said, if their dad ain’t home and his momma is still struggling, she’s doing everything she can do because she makes too much to be assisted and not enough to make it.

With that being said, of course that burden falls on the child as well. Eventually, if the child is sheltered from the realities of what is going on as far as that. Eventually, at some age, it’s going to start to affect their child. If you add what is going on at home to what is going on at school. When they go to school and they are being picked on. They don’t know why he’s not sociable. He’s not cool, period. If they don’t understand that, like most people, the thing they don’t understand, that’s what people gather up and pick at. I just wanted to give a better look at that. Like I said, that’s something people don’t see. I guess the given end of the bullying, they don’t look at all that. Nine times out of ten, they going through the same thing. They just take it a different way. Those busy kids, they got all that going on at home. They lash out like that. The other kid, they got all that going on and he just keeps to himself. So, you know, that was to show that even though you going through what you are going through, somebody going through something similar or somebody is going through something that is the opposite of what you are going through. No matter what, we are all going through something. You can’t treat a person like a person is not a person.

Why did you guys reach out to get Kevin Gates on the record? Starlito: It was like a divine, almost like a far off prophecy. You know, people say the stars align. It just happened how it happened. We’ve been rocking ever since that day we recorded that song. That’s like the coolest thing in the world to me. I did that verse on his album, the “MYB.” I did that verse that day. Probably 12 noon, on my way to Atlanta to meet Trip so we can start working on Step Brothers 2 . I did the verse, strangely, I don’t work with people I don’t know. We don’t record any of our music in separate rooms. We don’t e-mail verses. We get in the studio together. And I prefer to work with people that I know. People that I am cool with, etc. I heard an interview on accident one day. I was in car and satellite radio came on. I heard somebody [say], “All I listen to is Starlito. I just prefer reality music. My favorite rapper is Starlito.” I’m like, I don’t have a clue who it is. I keep listening to the interview out of curiosity. Soon or later I figure out it is Kevin Gates. I wasn’t really too hip to his music. I heard his name, but I wasn’t that hip to his music. I started paying attention and heard some things I like. I think that was around that time he dropped that project the top of this year. I was intrigued. I gave it a fair listen. This is somebody that appreciates my music, so at least, I hear it out. I was like, “Man, this shit’s deep.” I liked it.

I did the verse. Him and his people reached out. Got in touch with him. I did that verse for “MYB” as an investment and good faith because I felt like he fucks with me, so I’ll kind of make an exception for what I normally do and mail this verse in. I dropped the verse that day and I called an A&R or whoever sent the song. I sent the song back, I have a song that I think he would sound cool. I have this beat that I want him to check out and have him do a chorus. It wasn’t “Leash On Life.” It was “Luca Brasi Speaks” on my Cold Turkey album. That’s another funny story cause I wanted him to do a singing chorus, but he ended rapping. That happened later on that day. I’m like, “Just hit me up when he checks out the beat and sings this track. He would be a good guest to it. No rush. I’m my way to Atlanta to see Trip and record.” He was like, “Oh, Kevin [Gates] is in Atlanta. He stays in Atlanta right now. Give him a call. I’m sending you his number.” And I called. He pulled up. He came in the studio by himself. I really respected that. I thought I was the only rapper that really is all by myself way out of town. I go to another city to work or otherwise by myself. I don’t have to move a certain type of way.

He pulled up one in the morning, we have been working. He kind of made himself at home. I could tell he genuinely like fucked with me. We just hit it off and started working immediately. Within 20, 30 minutes of him being there, we were pulling up “Leash On Life.” Or, what would become “Leash On Life.” And it was just a beat and my verse that I dropped at Don Trip’s studio. So, Trip’s putting his verse together and Gates is kind of like, “What’s that?” In the process of walking into the booth, I’m like, “You can fuck with this one if you like it. We don’t have a chorus yet.” He started humming some shit. It kind of sounded cool from a distance. He’s like, “Check this out.” What he sung out loud is the chorus that is on the song. Within him being in the studio with us 20-30 minutes, Trip went and cut his verse. Gates dropped a chorus. The rest is history.

In the last scene of the video, why end on an image of a school shooting? Don Trip: I think people need to understand. I think the only way for you to see the severity of what we was saying was for you to see that. Of course, we couldn’t show him walking in the school and killing people. I don’t think we wanted to show that anyway. But, we wanted to show the part that you do see. That you ignore. When we see that now, it’s just another shooting to us. I feel like that was something that was added for that. For the value of this is something that you recognize. This is familiar to you. Everything that happened before this scene in video is not familiar to you because we are oblivious of what led to that. So now you see what you have normally seen sitting in front of the TV. And what we showed you before shows you how it got that far.

Starlito: The impact of that scene. Part of it was supposed to come from … there were two subtle things within that closing scene. One, if you notice before the news report comes on, that’s the first time you see Don Trip. Both of us are in that video, just for like 5 seconds. You see Don Trip and its supposedly a music video. So the sick irony is that we are still crossing paths with these types of people. I’m coming out of a trap house and a kid is sitting on a porch looking lonely and thrown off. I’m looking at him like, “You’re out of place. What are you doing here?” And we are crossing paths in our day to day lives.

[Don Trip] is a rapper and he’s on TV. The other part that was the symbolism is that the dad. The big fat, overweight couch potato dad that’s abusive to his son and paying no attention to him is watching our music video. I know its kind of cliche because he’s watching the video about the same stuff. Our lives cross paths with these kind of people. We still in a roundabout way speak to these types of people and different walks of life. So, it wasn’t just we were showing a news report. We are showing the dad watching the news report. He’s so out of touch with his son and what’s going on in his son’s life that the first time he’s introduced to it is when its way to late. He’s seeing the tragedy he helped cause at the same time everybody else is seeing it. And its already affected who knows how many people. Like Trip said, we weren’t going to get graphic, simulate or reenact an actual school shooting, but to have the abusive dad watching the news report was actually the closing scene. So, it was a little bit further than putting a news report on there. Pay attention, before its too late.

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Interview: A Discussion With Starlito and Don Trip On Independence, the Evolving Industry, and "Step Brothers 2"

We spoke with two of Tennessee's most slept on lyricists about grinding in the 2013 music industry.

Image via Complex Original

Starlito  and Don Trip  released the first Step Brothers  mixtape in 2011 to small but passionate critical acclaim. Both artists had grown modest underground followings. The former was a longtime Nashville rapper who'd built regional buzz and had become involved, for a time, with Cash Money records. The latter had a viral story song that went viral, attracting the attention of Dr. Dre and Jimmy Iovine at Interscope.

Neither of these relationships would last. Despite receiving some high-profile attention from the press—'Lito, then known as All $tar, was written up in the New York Times , and Don Trip was put on XXL 's Freshman cover in 2012—both have remained, by and large underground favorites. 

Last week, Step Brothers 2  was released, and garnered more attention than their previous release. The album was bankrolled by an independent Step Brothers tour this past spring. "Probably 75% of the shows we put on ourselves," 'Lito explained. "Booked the venue, sold the tickets, promoted the show." Being independent isn't so much about an identity for the duo, as it is a financial reality of the era in which they work.

We spoke with Starlito and Don Trip about being the new face of the underground, independent hustle, the recording of Step Brothers 2 , and what happened to Don's deal with Interscope. 

As told to David Drake ( @somanyshrimp )

Do you think the kind of music you make is undervalued right now, relative to how it used to be? Starlito: Hell yeah. I think there's a wide open market for it.

Why do you think it's like that? Don Trip:  Because it’s honest music. And in order to make honest music, you have to the audacity to say, "Fuck you if you don’t like what I’m saying." Period. And a lot of people don’t really have that bone. That’s something you can’t grow, that’s something you’re born with. I think that goes everywhere, it’s not just music, it’s just how you are.

And two people I can speak on personally, Star and Kevin Gates. Those are two people that, no matter what, if he feels like saying it, he’s going to say it. And Gates is the same way. If he felt like saying it, he’s going to say it.

In that regard, I’m the same way. If I feel like saying it, it’s going to get said. And when it comes to the music, that’s pretty much how we take it. I can’t give you no other story than mine. Me giving you so and so’s story is watered down already, because it’s his story. I couldn’t tell it like he could tell it anyway.

Starlito:  I think the lane is wide open, also, because so many people have achieved massive success doing the opposite. And I’m not taking away from no one else’s success story, but a lot of people have made names for themselves, established careers, made hits, made tons of money off lying, off giving half truths, off commercializing the whole hood experience, or giving some jaded perspective.

Everybody’s not rich. Everybody I know that had bricks, the majority of them are locked up. None of them are rapping. None of them are running around, fresh as hell, driving around foreign cars and shit. That’s not my reality.

That’s to say that some of that music isn't good, but when we pan across and show you the rest of the picture, I think it’s like, "Oh shit, what is this? What are they talking about?" You’re not going to get a “Leash on Life” from a whole host of other street rappers. You’re not going to get “Caesar and Brutus” from street rappers that talk about the same types of things.

I don’t think we talk about the drug trade nearly as much as a lot of rappers. But a song like “Caesar and Brutus” is about two dope boys—this is a dope boy song. The difference is we sprinkled that reality in, that’s about how a bitch that can undo that whole tie. Like everybody else’s song is, "I got this, I got this, we got this—"

{ "id": 132760380 } We offer the ugly part of the picture. Because everything’s not cute. And we don’t have Lamborghinis, so I can’t—I hate to keep saying Lamborghinis, but the fact that I’m not rich in that regard and I don’t have all of this, I can’t speak about all of that. - Don Trip

Don Trip: We offer the ugly part of the picture. Because everything’s not cute. And we don’t have Lamborghinis, so I can’t—I hate to keep saying Lamborghinis, but the fact that I’m not rich in that regard and I don’t have all of this, I can’t speak about all of that. And really when it comes to music now, that’s pretty much how they approach it. They take the pretty element of what’s going on and give you that, but that’s not really what’s going on everywhere. That’s really not going on nowhere that I’ve ever been.

Starlito:  The disconnect is finding the audience that would be the most receptive to it, so they gravitate toward what we’re doing. And I think the disconnect is that they’re not online. The people that our music would most closely appeal to aren’t searching for a download link, don't probably don’t have a clear understanding of how to get digital music.

So it’s a wide open lane, we just have to meet in the middle of that demand curve. We have to find that audience, because you have to filter through the noise that is just music everywhere. But we’re right there next to—our music is going to be right next to somebody who’s not making the same type of music or aesthetic.

Like Trip said, I don’t think we’re afraid to be ourselves, I don’t think our music cares at all for acceptance. I think our music will be accepted because of that. But we’re not seeking out a spin, we’re not seeking out a positive review, we’re not seeking out a certain type of fan. We’re not catering our music to just this demographic or that one.

Like we’re being ourselves and we’re already a part of this one particular demographic because of who we are or where we come from and we’re just trying to let the reality of that come to the surface. I think that is it’s own lane and it's underpopulated.

What was the process like for recording the new tape? Don Trip:  For this tape we took more of a thought-out approach. The first tape was done in three studio sessions. [This time] we didn’t want to go in and say "Hey, let’s do it in three sessions and call it an album." We wanted to work at our own pace, so to speak. Throughout the recording process, we’ve been on the road, together and separately.

So we were doing a lot. The traveling time had to weigh in, too. And for the most part, we booked the majority of our sessions to record this album out of town. When I say out of town, I mean out of Nashville, and out of Memphis. The first tape we recorded one session in Memphis, one in Nashville, and one in L.A.

Starlito: We finished the album and mastered it in L.A. It was just three sessions. This time, I say we started in April—this Spring we did an independent tour, Step Brothers Tour. Probably 75% of the shows we put on ourselves—booked the venue, sold the tickets, promoted the show. Don Trip and Starlito, not a staff. Literally an independent tour. That allowed us to finance the album. We scheduled sessions around our travel schedule. But the ultimate part of it was that we were traveling together.

It was super cool that we released Step Brothers  on July 25th, 2011, and here we are this July, still performing songs from two years ago. It allowed us to really take in how much demand we have for a new project. For crowds of people to still be screaming word for word, the first one, it gave us the energy and put us in the right creative space to make a new one, because it’s tangible.

{ "id": 132760379 } The people that our music would most closely appeal to aren’t searching for a download link, don't probably don’t have a clear understanding of how to get digital music. - Starlito

It’s one thing when people respond to it, it’s another thing to see it and actually feel it. That was the difference. The time before, we were just picking up on the good vibes we had working together. This time, it’s like okay we’re on to something, we need to do it right, we’re going to take our time, and also within taking our time we learned a lot from the business side of things, what you get from throwing your own tour, what you get from going to seven or eight different states together as friends.

A lot of these shows we were having to balance the books and throw a good show. Sometimes we were just getting booked and getting paid and pulling up. All of that just made for a better album. It made a more complete project, as Trip said: thought-out. We were able to outline where we were trying to go with the project, as opposed to just rapping, which is the easy part for us.

What do you guys see as the big hump for you to get to the next level? Starlito:  Awareness is the biggest hurdle. It feels worthwhile to be doing this interview, considering you got caught up to speed with my music from something similar, a sit-down interview [ Ed. Note—he's referring to this article ] where someone took the time to ask me some questions, get some insight into what I had going on. And that turns into a fan or someone that gravitates toward us. I had made 20 CDs before that interview. That CD was done, out and had been for a month. I sold thousands of copies of that CD that week. You know, hand to hand, from my website, just because there was an awareness for it.

Same way with this project—I released three CDs that year, but when this one came out, we had the three videos serviced, we had writeups from publications such as this, and before you know it it was like, ‘wow, who are these guys, what’s up with these guys?’ You are able to make the decision on whether or not you buy into it. I feel like our body of work will do the rest.    Is radio something that you guys pursue? Is that still a goal? Don Trip:  I mean it’s on the list, of course, of course. Radio would be vital. I think it helps a lot with records being in rotation. But that’s the thing. Even with radio, there’s more to it than just being on the radio. Cause if we just in mix shows, then that don’t really do nothing for us. But once it’s in rotation—and to get to that point in our music, that’s a whole other hurdle, that’s a whole other ball game. That’s not just awareness, that’s when politics comes in, as well as other variables. But I think that the radio is something that is very important. I think that if we can get radio, that will maximize what we’re doing. 

Starlito:  I think radio just adds to presence. The awareness is there, people know that you’re good. It’s like, what is your calling card? What do I have to do, as a regular fan, to create more of a stir? What can I say—"Don Trip and Starlito are the truth"? That may mean something as a reference. But: "Have you heard that 'Life' song on the radio, the one where they talk about this?" It substantiates what you’re doing. It makes it real. Because that is, for some people, the only place to get music. It creates a presence that accelerates the rest of it.

{ "id": 132760381 } For the last three years I’ve prided myself on pushing my career off the fact that it’s people—it’s not politics, it’s not a system, it’s not something I’m programmed into or accepted—it’s people latching onto my music. - Starlito 

Me personally, I hate to say it like this, but I don’t cater and I don’t concern myself with radio programming. For the last three years I’ve prided myself on pushing my career off the fact that it’s people—it’s not politics, it’s not a system, it’s not something I’m programmed into or accepted—it’s people latching onto my music. They’re finding it, they’re seeking it out, they’re crossing paths in a natural, organic way. And it’s growing. And it means so much more to me than to have a song with 400 spins or a song with up to 500 spins. Where, yeah, I may be noteworthy here or there, but the connection is a little bit thinner. I could go to the city and perform, they go nuts over this one song on the radio. But I like it way better going to the college, and they go nuts for every song on my last three mixtapes, and none of them are on the radio. Because they’re locked in to my artistry and not the song.

I don’t concern myself with it, but like Trip said, it’s definitely a plus. I wouldn’t shun it. If someone in that programming world said, "I want to take this song and take it here, or we’re going to add this song or come play our show," I’m with all that. I can’t get wrapped up in it. I did that. I’ve spent a lot of money chasing a hit, trying to turn a song into a hit as opposed to serving music and letting people choose hits for you.

How important is touring for you guys? Is touring the bulk of your income? Starlito:  Touring is the number-one income stream in commercial music these days, period. It’s not his number one income stream [points to Don Trip], so I guess he could tell you how it’s different. But for me, for the last two and a half years, touring has been the bulk of my income. Different people have different routes. There’s a million ways to eat within music. You gotta think—and this is just more insight—I was running with Yo Gotti from 2004 to 2011, the beginnings of 2011. I was in the company of an artist I watched—his blueprint was release a single, get shows for days, and when that single starts to tail off, you come with another one to stay afloat. And I watched this guy become a millionaire doing that.

Now true enough, I also watched him get three different record deals, so don’t get me wrong. It’s not as if he’s making music strictly to do shows. But that was definitely a part of his business model. And even that was part of what helped leverage those label situations, because it’s tangible. You can see it in black and white—a song is moving at this point, and so will the show price. The thing is, like I said, you can hit or miss with those songs. So that’s not going to be every artists’ formula. His situation, he’s fortunate enough to keep making those songs to keep him on the road. And in that way, shows will probably stay consistent as an income stream, if you’re writing. If you’re a writer and you’ve got money coming from here you may have publishing situations.

Like you said, now that I’ve got a couple distribution situations and I can actually put my music out for sale and maybe even see a profit off of that. Now I’m starting to balance out my income stream. I want to seek out more consistency on the touring front. In 2011 I did eleven shows in December, that’s the month of my birthday. I made like $60-70,000 in three weeks, you know on the road. But then there’s been two or three months where I’ve had no shows. Like 90 days making no money off of my number-one income stream. So that’s where it comes to like, "Alright how many units could I sell? How much do I have to spend on an album to sell it and see a return on it?" When you start letting your business model evolve and conform to what’s going on, you start seeing—I’ll put out an independent album for a profit and it does okay, but then the shows pick up. Or I get added to a 15 city tour.

{ "id": 132760382 } It means a whole lot to me to, not to stay independent, like "I don’t need anybody," not to exclude anybody, but to stay an independent thinker, to stay a free thinker. - Starlito 

And that’s what I’m trying to get to, working with agencies, doing more festival-type shows, and more traditional hip hop concerts. You know we play nightclubs. I’ve done a nightclub for $15,000 where it was hard to tell if anyone was even there for the rap part of it. You know what I’m saying? It’s my show, it’s a Starlito event, but just the same, I’ve done a free festival show where everybody was there for the raps. 

Don Trip: By the same token, we’re men before we’re rappers. So of course, he’s got priorities, he’s got responsibilities as well as I do, so we can’t do it for the fun. We can’t put records out just because we love putting records out. Of course, at the end, there’s got to be some kind of incentive. It’s got to flourish some kind of way. I can say that we’ve become fortunate enough for us to have different avenues for it to actually work out. At this point, I can feel like I can speak for both of us, we’re at a point where we don’t need a major label to do anything. We do what we do, especially when it comes to finances. When it comes to finances, we take care of ourselves. You know, we don’t need that. And I think that’s one of the most important things about our craft. We get to create and just genuinely create. I’m not going into the studio and saying, "I’m going to make this record for the club." And he’s not going in to do the same thing. We go in and we work. If this is what pour out when I go in, then so be it.

What artists do you see doing what you’re doing on another level? The first one that occurs to me is Macklemore. LA Reid had even approached him and said that he'd distribute Macklemore's record for free if he'd just consider signing with them. Starlito:  I think it’s inspiring. To know that it’s possible to create your own line, to do your own stuff your own way, to do it yourself, and there’s no ceiling for it. But in terms of following, I think we just follow our own lead, not to sound cliche. It means a whole lot to me to, not to stay independent, like "I don’t need anybody," not to exclude anybody, but to stay an independent thinker, to stay a free thinker. 

Don Trip: To stay in control.

Starlito: Yeah, definitely that. To maintain control over what we’re doing. I’ve been relatively sheltered, as far as other artists’ situations. Like the Macklemore thing is relevant to me because like I watch the NBA All Star game, and his song is like the theme song for it and his videos are popping up everywhere and he performs at events. Things like that—where music crosses paths with my lifestyle, things that I enjoy—especially rap music—slaps me in the face. I start paying more and more attention.

Like Wiz Khalifa, when he had his rise with  Kush and Orange Juice,  that was a situation where I was forced to pay attention. Because in one way it seemed like it came out of nowhere, and in another way—I study trends, I study statistics, I pay attention to things really close. So when I’m seeing 50-something city tours, 60-70 city tours and shit, I’m having to figure out like—what is he doing to go to 60-70 cities without being on the radio? Same as what I was saying with Macklemore. Those kinds of things let me know, "hey this is possible." I may be able to do this the way I wanted to and not have to conform to things being so systematic.

Don—What was the transition like coming from Interscope going back to being independent? Don Trip:  The basis of the Interscope deal was with Epidemic/Interscope, so it was more than just Interscope involved. It was more than two parties. It was a three-party situation. And actually it had become a five-party situation. But just saying that I’m sure you understand how that got a little difficult. I learned a lot, being involved with the major labels just because I got involved. I study what’s going on, and I learn new things everyday. And being with a major label, there was a lot I didn’t know. There was a lot I already knew, but there was much more that I had no clue about. I learned a lot from it. I can’t say it’s the same as being independent, but I think it’s better for me because I have the control. And there's not so many people in it that don’t belong in it. Not doing no fingerpointing, none of that. But I think for the most part, the fact that I have control of what’s going on. If it fails it’s my fault, if it succeeds it’s my fault. I feel like having that burden is the best for me. Other than that I think it was a great opportunity. I think any situation with a major label is a great opportunity if it’s structured in the right way. With that one it was just unfortunate that—it didn’t work out for either party.

Did you guys have rap star dreams as a kid? What was the moment that you realized that recording music might not be like the fantasy you had in mind when you were younger? Don Trip:  As a kid, you know, I grew up watching Cash Money. To become a rapper, you have Ferraris and Bentleys. But shortly after my later teenage years, it was time to provide. So I learned early on that being involved in the music business wasn’t going to guarantee me four Ferraris, for the most part. I just wanted to get to a point where I could provide for my family and not need it. For the most part, that’s what I did. I sought out to do that. And even now I’m seeking to do that even further and to become a bigger artist, and of course make money on a bigger scale. And for the most part, I’ve become a larger artist. Even when the money does come and I can buy 19 Ferraris—I think for the most part, everything that’s happened to me now and the fact that it’s happened at 28 and not at 19, I think that’s a great thing for me and my family. The fact that I didn’t get the opportunity to blow $40 million when I was 19.

So being the age that I am now, and having a family and kids I have to provide for, I think that gives me a better mindframe when going further with this. And for the sake of not even wanting those things. Like when I wake up I’m not saying, "Hey, I want the Ferrari that Rick Ross got." I’m waking up thinking that when I’m 75, my kids are still straight. With that, I think that’s the best aspect of growing up and actually seeing success while you’re growing. I think it makes for better finances for the most part. Because we know a lot of people who got it when they were young, and they don’t have it right now. 

Starlito:  I can remember the first time I recorded myself—or the first time I went to a recording studio—and I wasn’t that good of a rapper, and I was just making beats. And strangely, I got invited to get on the song. And after I delivered a verse, there was no thrill like people telling me it was good. Even if I didn’t feel like that, I was probably even then, just like now, extremely critical of myself. But being able to go play that for somebody else, riding around and calling myself like, "This is me on this CD." That thrill, the rush of that, that original feeling is still the feeling I get today.

We were riding earlier, stuck in traffic, and I started playing my Fried Turkey album, because I’m finished with it and I’m proud of it for being finished. I’m sharing it with people whose opinions are valuable to me. And the first time I got paid to rap was just the same. I hadn’t had shit out, I had no CD out. I was the guy that could rap real good at Tennessee State University. I had no music out in like, "here’s my CD" kind of thing, but people knew I could rap real good. Rapping out loud for whoever would listen, or I had little demo type CDs. And somebody paid me $500 to get on their song, it was 2003 or something. I’d do a whole lot of other stuff to make money at the time. So like, the fact that this $500 is pure profit? I don’t have to do anything but pull up to the studio and rap on the song? I was like, "Oh shit, I wanna do this.I want to put out my music for people to hear it and enjoy it. I want to get paid from this."

These were landmark moments. I’m in New Orleans at Birdman’s house, and Lil Wayne’s upstairs recording and it’s like, "Okay, I’m a whole lot closer than where I used to be to where this tangible success is." In the same way, like hearing Trip express how he’s grateful that he’s reaching and achieving what he’s doing now at 28 and not 19. Strange thing is, and one of the things that makes our situation work, is that I was doing that shit when I was 19. You know what I’m saying? Like we’re the same age. We grew up different places, but experienced probably similar things at similar times, and I was 19 doing what I did today, jumping on and off planes, having people like court me as an artist, wanting me to sign with their record labels. 

{ "id": 132760384 } Cause at 19 or 20, a lump sum would probably breed complacency more than drive. You get a lot of money at one time, it’s like okay this is the way it’s supposed to be, it’s going to keep coming. - Starlito

I got a decent sized check to rap when I turned 20. But I didn’t really have the wherewithal to know what to do with it. I got a check to rap and all I could think about was what to spend the money on. On a personal level, if I had had the insight that I do now, I would have multiplied it by ten, just because of where the game was then. Or I would have never got the check to begin with. Cause at 19 or 20, a lump sum would probably breed complacency more than drive. You get a lot of money at one time, it’s like okay this is the way it’s supposed to be, it’s going to keep coming.

I’ve got a different appreciation. I’ve got a check right now for Cold Turkey that I refuse to touch until I put out my next solo album. This is discipline. Yesterday that shit would’ve been gone twice. You know what I’m saying? Those were the moments that stick with me and I have to remind myself of that. Even now in the space that we’re in, I have to approach this shit like nobody’s heard of me. Like I have no audience, there’s no awareness, there’s no presence. That’s the only way I stand out is to have that same edge about myself because that’s what made people reach out to me at 19 and 20. I was like, "Fuck it, I’m putting out another CD. It’s going to be better than my last one." And I’m going to go further in trying to sell it. Because back then, I had a backpack or a trunk and we’d load up the van and go where people were going to be. Now it’s the internet. Now I have to figure out ways to make our 5x5 CD cover stand out above yours.

How competitive are you guys on Step Brothers 2 ? Who won? Don Trip: I think that’s what makes our records as great as they are.

Starlito: The competition—I’m sure he’s going to bring it. So the competitive energy is that I cannot sell myself short. I cannot sell myself short because I’m gonna get killed.

Don Trip:  It goes both ways. It’s the exact same thing. When we go in the studio, I get asked the question a lot: do we hear each other’s verses before we record? And we don’t. If he came up with the idea first, and it’s an idea we can both agree on and correlate with, then he goes in to record. And while he’s recording, I’m working on what I’m working on. So by the time he comes out, I’ve got something for him. Even the “Leash on Life” song took forever. Not because it took forever to write it. But when I heard the “Leash on Life” record, the only thing that was on it at first was Lito’s verse. So when I heard his verse, that put me in the space of where I thought I needed to go with it. Because even with that record—we had a rapper vs. rapper kind of competition with that record. He gave you the perfect story. How can I give you a second story that’s the perfect story? It’s almost impossible to do it without keeping in mind that he actually is great at his craft as well.

So I couldn’t go in there and do the dah dah dah dah dah dah. I couldn’t just go in there and do the simplest thing. Of course, I got my fan base, he’s got his fan base. The fan base is going to be biased no matter what. There’s going to be people who say I’m better than him and vice versa. The way I look at it, if anything, he’s equal to me when it comes to doing what we do. Because when I go in the studio with him, he’s not in there just chilling. He’s in there trying to work too. Even when we’re not paying for studio time, even when we’re in our own studios, we go in as if every second counts, as if we’re paying for every second in there.

{ "id": 132760383 } For Kendrick Lamar to push me competitively, is just the same, reminding me that I can make an album that tells my story and represents my region. - Starlito 

And that makes me appreciate our music more. And that’s why, of all the artists I’ve ever worked with, I’ve worked with him the most. Even outside of our Step Brothers projects, we might have enough records together to do two extra Step Brothers without going back in the studio. That’s just how we work. But I think that comes from us being competitive with each other, not in a personal sense. I know he goes in and he’s going to give it his all, so I have to give my all, period. 

Starlito: The people I’m most driven by competitively are the same people that inspire me directly. So even if there were an artist I didn’t know—for Kendrick Lamar to push me competitively, is just the same, reminding me that I can make an album that tells my story and represents my region. I can redefine the times for my area because I just watched him do that. It’s not like I got to sell this many, I got to get this look or that look. It just reminds you that it’s possible. Rather than trying to compete and keep up, I think that’s what people would take out of the competition. It’s like, ‘just give me something to strive for.’

We were talking about OJ Mayo and Michael Jordan, talking trash at a basketball camp, like nowhere in OJ Mayo’s mind should he have felt like he could fuck with Jordan, but where are you in your game if you don’t feel like that? If you don’t push yourself, like, "I’m just as good as that guy." That’s natural. But it’s more knowing what we’re trying to get out of this shit. I think we’re probably most competitively driven by each other. Because the harder I push him, the harder I push myself, the further we’re both going to go. So just the same, I think we demand excellence from one another by default.

What was the first rap tape you ever bought as a kid? Mine was by Kris Kross, ha. Don Trip: When I was younger, my mom’s boyfriend was a bootlegger. So I got all the tapes, of course, you know before they came out. I didn’t buy any of them. I think the first cassette tape I acquired was NWA. I don’t remember which exact album it was, but it was the first time I heard somebody cuss and shoot so many times and it was thrilling. "I fucks with this. I think I’m gonna rock with this." And after that of course, you know more and more genres of music. And Kris Kross. It was an awkward blend to put Kris Kross and NWA together, but you got to keep in mind I was like, what, seven or eight or some shit. And Kris Kross—that’s what gave me the admiration of wanting to be a rapper, because I saw kids do it. This is 20 years later, but you know. That’s what instilled it in me. I saw kids doing it. I wanted to be a rapper right then. So I had been doing it since then. And really, like I said, the NWA tape was really—I guess that’s the reason I cuss now.

Starlito:  I can’t remember the first tape or the first thing that I owned, but I remember getting in trouble for trying to scratch a Kool Mo Dee record. Probably from my uncle or somebody like that. I’m sure I was listening to NWA and all of that, but the first tapes that I can remember being a fan of were The Chronic and the Menace II Society soundtrack. If it wasn’t my tape, it might as well have been mine, because that’s what I prefered to listen to. The strangest part about it is that artistry made sense to me. I was a child, but the things that they were talking about was my reality. Or it was the people I was growing up amongst, raising me. First of all, my mom was 19 when she had me, so like when stuff like that hit, it was what she was listening to. Menace II Society and Boyz in the Hood , all of those movies, none of that shit was hidden from me, because that’s what was going on outside.

So hearing those projects—like, The Chronic , even looking back, that shit was just put together really really well. The skits were nowhere near age appropriate for me, but in terms of how it felt, in terms of the sound of it—it was just a feeling. The thing about Menace II Society soundtrack is that is introduced me to artists from UGK to Spice-1, E-40 might have been on there. I consider that one of the my first times falling in love with rap and gangsta rap especially. Even though it was West Coast-themed, it wasn’t just limited to that. It was about culture, it was about lifestyle. And these cats in Texas were living just like these cats in California. You know, like you said, Kris Kross, you know—cause I was a fan of Kriss Kross too, obviously. Seeing kids do it made me feel like I could do this too.

One of the things that I was always drawn to was people telling their story. Like even if your story ain’t the good story, it’s like, I can make this shit rhyme, I can make this shit real to you, even if it’s not where you live. That was always my rap. That’s the way I always thought rap should be. So when the tide started changing, as a fan of the culture you just rock with it. Even to now, I like my music because it’s somebody’s story. It’s not just music to sell. It doesn’t just have commercial integrity to it—it means something to somebody. And that’s what I get, that’s what I get from my audience.

RELATED: Album Stream: Starlito and Don Trip "Step Brothers 2"

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First Listen

First listen: starlito and don trip, 'step brothers 2'.

Frannie Kelley

Starlito And Don Trip, 'Step Brothers 2'

Starlito (left) and Don Trip, whose mixtape Step Brothers 2 comes out Oct. 15. Courtesy of the artist hide caption

Starlito (left) and Don Trip, whose mixtape Step Brothers 2 comes out Oct. 15.

Purchase The Album

Starlito and Don Trip hail from Tennessee, the former from Nashville and the latter from Memphis. Two years ago, they teamed up to make a mixtape called Step Brothers , named in honor of the Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly movie. The acclaim for it, from critics and laypeople alike, opened a door wide enough for both rappers, who had been quietly respected as solo artists but languishing in record-label limbo — until 2010, Starlito had performed as All $tar, the name under which he made " Grey Goose ," while Don Trip's " Letter to My Son " got him signed but not much else. Their song " Pray for Me ," in particular, is warm and bone-chilling at the same time — thoughtful trap. Starlito has called the tape , which they made quickly with not many expectations, a "perfect accident."

On their followup — Step Brothers 2 (out Oct. 15), which they've made with more consideration — Starlito raps like his eyes are at half mast, or he's lying down, which makes his quick wit land even harder. Don Trip is sharper, but he reflexively wrings extra playing time out of his vowels and multiplies his syllables. His delivery is athletic, whichever of the several tones at his disposal he's decided to use. In "Ninja Focus," he says, "I go harder than a tortoise shell, my name ring like a doorbell, my wrist chilly like Hormel." While Starlito has a penchant for singing along with the vocal samples, Don Trip plays the straight man. But not that straight — he's the one who paraphrases Ghostface (though it's serious Ghostface ) in "Where Do We Go."

The songs on Step Brothers 2 are littered with regret — in "28th Song," Starlito's sleeping with his girlfriend's sister and he's not proud of it. They both say they've sold drugs before, but that that doesn't mean you should. This isn't a new emotion for either writer. Five years ago, Starlito told The New York Times that his first single wasn't the launching pad he'd hoped it would be, for a couple of reasons: " I was having a hard time, for a second, being so closely associated with alcohol ." Now, in "Bunk Beds," he says, "I've got more fake friends than songs with radio spins, and I'm not concerned with either until they try to play me again." And then there's the ladies. In "Open Your Eyes," laced with smooth saxophone, Starlito bemoans the state of his love life. "My girlfriend my Glock 9," he says. "Looking for a pretty woman with the wisdom of my grandmother."

The production is purple, almost lurid, with swelling synths, morbidly obese bass lines, scarily impersonal 808s. It's not exactly pretty — though "Leash on Life" cleans up nice — but its drama is Godfather levels of riveting. If you're not listening with every ounce of woofer available to you, then you're listening wrong. Step Brothers 2 is a Southern Gothic novel with many authors: Starlito and Don Trip certainly, but also Kevin Gates and Drumma Boy, also from Memphis; Burn One, from Atlanta; and Young Chop, from Chicago. "4x4 Relay," produced by Chizzy and Sarah J, doesn't sound like the rest of them, though — it's triumphant, the kind of song you make so you can become part of people's celebrations, and not just their ruminative commutes and daily grind. It's the kind of song you make once you've arrived.

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Step Brothers THREE

By Paul A. Thompson

Empire / Grind Hard

March 29, 2017

About forty minutes into Step Brothers THREE , on the somber “Just Want It All,” Don Trip raps: “All I know is the truth, and I pour it all in my lines/Looking for more of my kind, Lito was all I could find.” Lito, of course, is Starlito , Trip’s collaborator of six years and one of the only working rappers who can match him bar for bar, threat for threat. Their work together over three full-length records and some stray shots is an alchemic blend of technique and confession; each has pushed the other to write the best, most incisive material of his career. Without sacrificing any of the technical virtuosity, the pair of Tennesseans has made THREE their most personal collection to date.

Lito and Trip—from Nashville and Memphis, respectively—are rapper’s rappers, but they write as if they need to get out of the booth and attend to real life as soon as possible. (Later in the same verse from “Just Want It All,” Trip laments his sister’s jealousy over the car he bought his mother, makes sure his kitchen is fully stocked with pans, then takes friends fishing to keep them out of prison.) In the middle of “The 13th Amendment Song,” Starlito even sets a hard deadline: “Ain’t it ironic that they lock us up for playing with keys?/Save your receipts, ‘cause freedom ain’t free, and lawyers ain’t cheap/And I know—I got court on the 18th.” Whatever the opposite of escapism is, that’s Step Brothers THREE .

Both rappers were run through the industry ringer earlier in their careers, but they smartly avoid casting themselves as virtuous outsiders to a vacuous mainstream. Instead, they tunnel deep into their own worlds, their own psyches (Starlito, from “What I Gotta Do”: “I ain’t watch the news since they shot at me”). Instead of turning solipsistic, you get writers who reveal themselves through their interactions with others—Trip obsessing over his kids’ seatbelts, Lito weighing the risk-reward in lying to a woman who’s already lost her trust in him.

On a purely aesthetic level, Lito and Trip are uniquely well-suited for a duo. The former’s voice is lower, gruffer, where the latter brightens songs and gives them a buoyancy that they might otherwise be missing. The writing itself is almost telepathically in sync, but the vocal approaches give the impression that the step brothers are approaching the truth from opposite sides. (They’ve leveraged this to chilling effect in the past: “ Caesar and Brutus ,” from Step Brothers TWO , pits Lito and Trip as blood rivals.) On the closer “Untitled No Hook,” you’re left with the distinct feeling that each rapper gets something different out of the pursuit, which in turn makes a song like “3rd 2nd Chance” all the more affecting.

And yet, while each rapper is prone to introspection, and while listening to Step Brothers THREE frequently feels voyeuristic, the album opens with an exaltation. “Yeah 5X” is full of infidelity and deposition testimony and trunks stuffed with shrink-wrapped bricks. At one point, Trip raps, “My nigga beat a murder trial, to us that’s called triumph.” That’s what this record (and really, the whole collaboration) is: a triumph. Don Trip and Starlito’s music is bursting with the sort of low-level psychic panic that’s just below the surface in nearly everybody. They navigate that—and suspicious lovers, predatory record executives, would-be assailants, and so on—and come out the other side with vivid, virtuosic rap music. What could be more triumphant?

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Interview: Starlito and Don Trip

TWO SELF-PROCLAIMED OUTCASTS FIND A BOND YOU COULDN'T FAKE

In an industry that prizes individuality, Tennessee rappers Starlito and Don Trip have a rare mutual respect. Together they've released two cult-favorite projects that split the difference between funny and thoughtful and showcase the "hyper-creativity" they've found in collaboration. On the release day of their new joint album, Step Brothers 2 , they stopped by FADER to talk about what makes rapping fun and the connections between Shakespeare and Paid In Full .

It's been two years since the first Step Brothers tape . Why now for the sequel? STARLITO: I think it's perfect timing. We released the first one on the three year anniversary of the movie's release [July 25, 2011]. The cool thing about that, just being real, was it made it easy to just use the movie's promos, artwork and everything, and just cut their heads off. The first Step Brothers was just a mixtape, it was very much free-spirited, free music. We're retailing this album—we actually just got a call that we're number four on the iTunes rap charts—so the whole idea was to do it right, make sure we had all our ducks in a row. DON TRIP: Quality over quantity. We just had to make sure we did it in the right space where we weren't rushing.

How did you guys decide to start working together in the first place? DON TRIP: We met in 2010, and I guess it was just a bond you couldn't fake. At first we didn't really know what to expect from each other as rappers, but as we spent more time together—we just get along, even outside of music. And that makes it easier to work together, because I feel like his time is just as valuable as my time. STARLITO: I'd I heard some of his music, before "Letter To My Son," and I thought it was dope. One of my friends gave me his CD when I was in Memphis and was like, "He reminds me of you." I was working with Yo Gotti at his record company at the time, and Gotti asked me, "Have you heard of this guy Don Trip? I was like,Yeah, he's probably the best rapper in the city. From there, we got put in the same room, almost like divine intervention. I remember it like it was yesterday, the first day we met, he told me he fucked with my music and it humbled me a little bit, because I've crossed paths with so many rappers that are full of themselves. So I was just like, I can deal with this guy, he's not stuck on himself. And the first songs we did were smashes, recorded in minutes. Like Trip was saying, we didn't know what to expect as artists, but I knew that he could rap and I couldn't take that from him.

Where did the Step Brothers concept come from? STARLITO: It started from the movie—just the concept of the camaraderie between two strangers that were so quirky in their own regard that they wouldn't gel with anybody else. I kind of looked at us as outcasts—not to be like a play on words—but we weren't traditional Southern artists, we didn't have traditional buzzes. So I was like, we're gonna do something different and just rap for the sake of rapping, and not try to make a hit that fits with the trends of the time, let's just rap our asses off. Honestly, before Step Brothers , I was ready to quit rap music. I'd just released a mixtape, @ War With Myself , in 2011, and I was done. I was just like, this shit isn't fun anymore, I don't like it, the game is fake, everybody in the industry is fake. The thing was, earlier that year, we had already started recording the project. I had told him we were gonna do it, and it just meant the world to me to keep my word. I was like, I don't wanna be one of those guys that made me hate rap, so fuck it, we're gonna do this project. And then we just had fun, and I was able to cast some of that other shit off, and Don snapped me out of it. I always remind myself of that. It rejuvenated my entire being almost. I mean we've got some records that are edgy, maybe sad, but for the most part, the bullshit of everyday life doesn't spill into it as much.

Has the work you've done together changed either of you as rappers? Has it impacted your solo stuff? DON TRIP: When we rap individually, the songs are more involved in our personal lives. When I'm with Lito, I get more into my sense of humor. I'm not a funny guy. But it's a different chemistry, that gives me the room to have more fun than I normally have. Not that I don't have fun recording music normally, but it's less on display. STARLITO: I don't think Trip has to go far out of his element to work with me, but there's just another dimension to the creativity. A lot of songs we're just going back and forth, almost line for line. I pride myself in being lyrical, but literally going off of his last word, that's different than writing lyrics. For "4 x 4 Relay" we just traded four bars, four bars, very steady. I freestyled the first four bars and before I was even done leaving the booth, he's crossing paths, ready to record his four. With that type of thing, I don't even have time to think it through the same way I would with a sixteen, I gotta think on my feet. And that's the thing that we bring to the table working together. It's almost like, hyper-creativity. And I have supreme confidence in what he's doing. Records like "Caesar and Brutus," I couldn't have made that song by myself. It wouldn't have been nearly as interesting. And we are those characters.

"We don’t have a problem taking a back seat from each other. If Star has a more creative idea, that’s what we’re gonna do." —DON TRIP

That song is all about betrayal between friends. On first listen, I was like, Oh no, are they still cool with each other? DON TRIP: That was just us being creative. Of course we live two different lives, but in our lives there's a lot of similarities. Really with that record, we didn't know which characters we wanted to be, because it could've been both ways. That was the whole point, where you couldn't tell who was the protagonist and who was the antagonist. They're both just people. And you can pick sides but you can't tell which is the right side, and it shows how things can get misconstrued due to lack of communication.

How did you arrive at that concept for the song? STARLITO: Well it starts with Shakespeare. In the beginning of the song I say, Are you Caesar or Brutus, are you Mitch or Rico? Because I understand that a lot of the hip-hop realm may not read Shakespeare like I do, but they may have seen Paid In Full . In the movie it wasn't about a girl, it was about money, power, profile, but the same guy that comes to your rescue in prison is the same guy that wants to cross you out—that's Caesar and Brutus, that's Brutus trying to influence the Romans to overthrow Caesar, brainwashing everybody like he's too powerful, he's wigging out, he's trippin. Paid In Full modernizes that, it's set in the '80s in New York, but we're from the South and it's 2013 and the same things happen. I've known dudes to kill their right-hand man over a girl. Guys who have really lucrative businesses, legal or illegal, and fall out over a woman, or a lack of communication. So we wanted to make a street record that's not just glorifying what's going on, cause the streets are really really cruel and fucked up. This and a few of the other songs on Step Brothers 2 just started with us having a conversation like this, wanting to push the envelope. "Pimp C 3000" is a roundabout tribute to the two two-man groups we grew up on, UGK and OutKast. We highlighted the dominant personality types in each group—not to take away from the other person in those groups, but I lean toward Andre 3000, I lean toward Pimp C—but part of our brand is making it so there's not a person to lean to.

How do you guys keep that balance in your relationship, so that no half of the duo is the dominant one? DON TRIP: The way we work, we don't have a problem taking a back seat from each other. If Star has a more creative idea, that's what we're gonna do, and vice versa. STARLITO: And just the same, we can talk each other down from things. The difference between this project and the last is that there were five songs that didn't make the cut. I don't mean they weren't good enough, but for some songs, it was just me on the chorus and it just sounded like a Starlito record. And in terms of our brand, we try to shy away from this sounds like a Don Trip song, this sounds like a Starlito song, but featuring the other artist. Because the difference between us and a UGK, with an 8Ball and MJG or OutKast, is that we didn't start out as a duo, and that's another reason we don't get hung up on the dominant personality type in the group. He was Don Trip before he met Starlito and I was Starlito before I met Don Trip.

You both bring a lot of your personal life into your solo work? How do the people in your life react to showing up in your songs? STARLITO: I've had times where I've had to talk to people and smooth it over for them, let them know why I did that. The "DNA" record on Step Brothers , that was a purge for me. When I walked out of the booth I felt better. I'm an artist, it made me feel better to put it in song form. And I'm probably not the only male that's experienced a female having an abortion without your approval. Even still, I felt compelled to reach out to that person before the song came out—Hey, I made this record, I didn't trash you. I don't even know if people take that as a real thing that happened when they listen to that song, but if she said she wasn't cool with it, I wasn't gonna put that song out. To your audience, something like "DNA" might just be like, Wow that's powerful, that's a cool song. But there are people who know these people, and that's their life too. I don't want to step on somebody's toes just for my art, not somebody that I care for. At the same time my music is my music, and it is personal.

Is there a difference in style between Memphis rap and Nashville rap? DON TRIP: There might be more lyrical content coming from Nashville, and more of the street stuff comes from Memphis. But if there's a difference, it's a good difference, and there are a lot of similarities. STARLITO: If anything, it's a cultural difference. Memphis is a way more urban city, it's more streetwise, and so the music that stands out from Memphis is more streetwise, it's true to the culture. Nashville is just a music city, they have almost perpetual access to studios, and there are so many experts in different fields, you can really just hone in on your craft, which leads to maybe more lyrical content. But I mean, Memphis has its own musical heritage too, with the blues and whatnot, and that influences it too. A lot of the Memphis music I grew up on was influenced by the blues, just like Dr. Dre was influenced by funk. Cats from Memphis and cats from Nashville end up in the same jails, it's all just Tennessee. So you can commit a crime in Nashville and end up locked up down here in Memphis, and there's always been a lot of conflict that comes from that, a lot of turmoil.

In the '90s, Memphis rap seemed much more regionally specific than it is now, really marked by the sound of Hypnotize Minds. Now there's a lot more overlap with the sound of the South in general. DON TRIP: I think it's actually a benefit to Memphis that people branched out from that. If you look at it, those sounds didn't work for nobody but the people that made them. Nobody that tried to sound like Three 6 came out in advantage, nobody that tried to sound like Ball & G came out in advantage. That was the hardest obstacle for Memphis music, to climb over that and sound like how you actually sound.

Ok—best duo ever? STARLITO: Jordan and Pippen. You didn't say rap music, that was just the first thing that came to mind. DON TRIP: M&Ms.