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Janeway’s “Tuvix” Decision Still Divides ‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Cast: “It Kind Of Hurt Her Character”

| January 18, 2024 | By: TrekMovie.com Staff 258 comments so far

It’s been almost 28 years since the Star Trek: Voyager episode “Tuvix” aired, and it still sparks strong debate. It turns out the stars of the show are just as divided about the moral issues at its core as the show’s fans.

The “Tuvix” debate continues with Voyager cast

Trek Talks 3 is a marathon of Star Trek panels streamed live on January 13 on YouTube to benefit the Hollywood Food Coalition . One of the most fascinating panels was focused on a single episode of Star Trek: Voyager , “Tuvix,” the second season episode where the characters of Tuvok and Neelix were combined (via transporter accident) into a new person (the titular Tuvix). Captain Janeway’s decision to restore Neelix and Tuvok, and therefore essentially kill Tuvix, is controversial, even among the cast. The panel included Voyager stars Ethan Phillips (Neelix), Tim Russ (Tuvok), Garrett Wang (Harry Kim), and Robert Duncan McNeill (Tom Paris), who were joined by Voyager writer Lisa Klink and the man who played Tuvix himself, Tom Wright.

The panel, moderated by McNeill and Wang, started with all of the actors acknowledging that “Tuvix” is the still most controversial episode of the series, then quickly turned into a debate. Tim Russ took the view that Janeway did the right thing, offering his  reasons why:

Russ: “The captain’s responsibility is to her crew. That’s what the captain’s responsibility is. And she’s the only one on the ship that can make the decision. And he [Tuvix] cannot reproduce as a species… I believe that point is made [in the episode], there is no other of his kind… He’s an anomaly, whereas the crewpeople that he has replaced already have a family, we have lives.”

Ethan Phillips didn’t explicitly come down on one side or the other, but he posited that Janeway’s decision was “the only example of an execution in all of the franchise.” He also pointed out that Tuvix did nothing to deserve his fate:

Phillips: “The event of the combination of the two was accidental. By executing Tuvix, she’s not making up for a murder or anything like that. He has almost like it’s a right to live because of this accident… I wouldn’t know where to begin to decide. It’s a very complicated area.”

Garrett Wang took a bit of a middle ground view:

Wang: “When Tom Wright showed up I was so impressed with his professionalism, his talent, and his all-around demeanor off camera. I was bowled over he became my favorite person instantly, literally. Tom Wright was to me, someone that I really looked up how he conducted himself. And when he had to leave, I think I cried actually… I wanted somehow to keep all three of them. I didn’t want Tom right to leave. I wanted Neelix to come back. I wanted Tuvok to come back. But I wanted to Tuvix to exist independently of the other two as well.”

Robert Duncan McNeill took the strongest stance against Janeway’s choice:

McNeill: “I watched it again today and watching Janeway have to make this decision and the way she has to do it in such a kind of cold manner, I felt like it kind of hurt her character—I’ll be honest—a little bit. I think she had to earn her way back from this episode.”

From the Trek Talks 3 “Tuvix” panel

Writers wanted Janeway “tortured” by decision

Later McNeill went on to say he would have preferred a different sci-fi solution to the dilemma:

McNeill: “Being science fiction, it’s made-up science, right?. The procedure that [The Doctor developed] is black and white. You have to kill Tuvix or you know do away with Neelix and Tuvok. But it’s made-up science. Could there have been a thing that doctor said like, ‘If you do this we’ll save some DNA. Maybe in the future I can come up with a way to bring Tuvix back. I don’t know, it’s such a black and white decision. It just… It hurt me with the captain.'”

McNeill also suggested that one way to resolve the dilemma would be to take Janeway out of the final decision and have Tuvix “heroically” decide to sacrifice himself. Writer Lisa Klink revealed this was considered and explained why they decided to make it Janeway’s choice:

Klink: “We did talk about that in the room. But then we realized that we wanted to put Janeway in a really difficult position. It’s much more dramatically interesting if she has to make that really, really difficult call than if he did heroically sacrifice himself…  You want to torture your characters as much as possible.”

From “Tuvix” (Paramount)

Tuvix actor: “He had to go”

Perhaps ironically, the actor who played Tuvix says he understood Janeway’s decision.

Wright: “Speaking as the character, every entity alive is hardwired to want to survive. So that’s going to be Tuvix’s default thinking. But myself as an actor, I saw that he had to go. There wasn’t enough justification for losing two entities for the sake of one… People ask how I felt about it. The reason I had any feeling at all is because I absolutely loved the character. I know both [Ethan] and I know Tim separately from the show. So to be able to have those two people as as back pocket resources with the creation of this character was, to me, invaluable. There’s an artistic side of me that really would love to keep keep on playing that character for forever and ever. But the practical side of an entire ball of wax dictates something different.”

There was a lot more discussion about the episode, including a description of the original pitch and how Ethan Phillips was originally approached to play Tuvix, so it’s worth watching the whole panel.

 Watch Trek Talks 3

Here is the livestream for the full event. (Video should jump to the start of the “Tuvix” panel at 6:11:30)

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Get updates and learn more at  trektalks.net .

Discovery  seasons one through four are currently streaming exclusively on Paramount+ in the U.S., the U.K., Switzerland, South Korea, Latin America, Germany, France, Italy, Australia and Austria. Seasons two and three are also available on the Pluto TV “Star Trek” channel in Switzerland, Germany and Austria. In Canada, it airs on Bell Media’s CTV Sci-Fi Channel.

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Captain Janeway killed Tuvox because she didn’t want to change the title sequence of Star Trek: Voyager.

That’s a joke, but it’s kinda true.

Like the article said, they could have had Tuvix sacrifice himself, but they took the easy option away.

It’s kind of Voyager at its most riskiest and Voyager playing it safe at the same time.

but they took the easy option away.

The “easy option” utterly lacking in any drama or moral debate, but giving us a technobabble ending. No thanks.

What’s more technobabble about Tuvix agreeing to sacrifice himself for Neelix and Tuvok than the ending we got? Either way he ends up on the transporter at the end. I don’t follow what you’re getting at here.

Anyway, I’m not saying it’s a bad thing they didn’t go that way. Just that they could have taken the decision out of Janeway’s hands if they wanted to. Personally I’m glad they didn’t. It’s more interesting if Tuvix is fighting for his survival to the very end. It’s the writers job to make life hard for the main characters.

It would be event more interesting if the writers had the guts — in terms of main characters having accountability — for Tuvix to had lived, with Tuvoc and Neelix no longer appearing on the series from that point in.

By not having the guts to leave Tuvix as is, they did the same BS that Marvel did when they cheapened the gravitas and character accountability that we got in the great Infinity War movie, with a cheap plot reversal device in Endagme that diminished the whole storyline.

It is interesting to speculate whether, had this episode been written a few years later, whether they might have seriously considered this route. At the time, television was beginning to transition to serialization; the Sopranos was a mere three years out. DISCO sure didn’t hesitate to kill off characters in its first two seasons.

OTOH, I think this was a character-defining moment for Janeway. The first draft of “City on the Edge of Forever” had Kirk emotionally unable to restrain McCoy from saving Edith Keeler. The problem was that the audience might have been unable to respect Kirk as a leader as a result; hence the change, to where he physically stops McCoy from saving here. I think a similar dynamic might have played out had Janeway elected not to separate Tuvix.

it wasn’t cheap to reverse ‘the snap’, it took sacrifice and loss to fix things

the writer’s at the time didn’t have the ability to change season (or multi-season) contracts by writing in something like that. If they had pitched the idea later or as a season ender giving the production team the option to swap two contracts for one then maybe

The problem is from a dramatic point of view, Tuvix saying he wants the procedure to happen would have gutted the entire point of the ep. At that point why even make it? Transporter accident happened. We undid it. Anyone want breakfast?

Lol, yeah, good point!

I agree it would have been less dramatic to have Tuvix go along with it. Already said that. I just don’t get why River was saying it’s more technobabble. It’s a transporter accident show. It’s inherently a technobabble show already.

Eh…. forgot it.

You’re right about that. The transporter accident plot device thing goes back to TOS so it’s not Berman-era technobabble

LOL all good!

No I think they were right NOT to want Tuvix to go along with it. It would’ve destroyed all the drama over it. I’m happy they went the direction they did. And I don’t really mean Janeway’s decision, but just the fact they didn’t give her an easy out.

That and losing Tim Russ as Tuvok would’ve been a travesty. The character was only meant to be in one episode. They could’ve found an easier way as the new kid said but happy but they didn’t. It what makes Trek such a great show.

Yeah Tim Russ is such a talent it would not have been the same show without him. He is the only other Vulcan that even comes close to Nimoy or Mark Leonard in my book.

Well it’s obviously hilarious how Tim Russ fully backs how it all worked out — like none of us could see that coming, right? ;-)

Wait, wait, wait… first she killed Tuvix, THEN Tuvox? Wow… quite the set on ol’ Auntie Kathy.

(I kid, I kid)

And they should have changed it by season 4 as they were in Borg space

The episode, as is, could have been made so much better by a single final scene where Tuvok visits her to tell her she made the wrong decision.

Yes. That would have been great.

Ya just gave me chills….

Not only chills from the twist, but if tuvok had actually confronted her on it, it would have — and I know this will be a shock for some fans used to voyager — meant Janeway would have learned and grown as a character; it would have forced her to re-examine her command decisions in a way she never really did before or since..

Great idea. Wish you’d been on the writing staff. I genuinely loathed Janeway in that episode. It was an execution and it was a very long time before I overcame how I felt about her actions.

Her decision had merit, but how the whole thing was done (in the script) was a failure in writing. All told, still a solid episode.

……as long as Tuvok is passing Kes on the way out, after she thanked Janeway for returning Neelix to her.

There’s always another point of view.

More poignant would have been Janeway, Tuvok and Neelix speaking in her quarters. Think about this: Tuvok and Neelix both “died” when they returned to Voyager as Tuvix while beaming. It makes sense that Tuvix died and they BOTH felt Tuvix’s death as they were being reborn as their separate selves. If Janeway had have asked each them: “Did I make the right choice?” Tuvok could reply that ” I do not know. I’ve experienced death, birth, death and a rebirth all in a few days…” Neelix could say similar or: “We’re asking the wrong person…He’s not here to answer…Good Night, Captain…”

That’s stupid. Because you’re not asking the wrong person.

Janeway did what she did because she was sad she lost neelix and tuvok. It was, essentially, her inability to cope with loss.

She justified it by saying they needed them back to fulfill their roles on the ship, and by saying that tuvok and neelix would want to be alive and she was essentially speaking up for them.

But by having tuvok tell her, point blank, “wrong choice” you are basically saying “you spoke up for me and neelix but that’s not what we wanted. We were in there, we were Tuvix, and we wanted to live.” Or even worse, tuvok and neelix now carry the guilt of having been brought back at the expense of another life.

I haven’t re-watched the episode in a long time, but I recall the visage on Tuvok’s face at the end suggested that was, in fact, what he did think. Perhaps he didn’t verbalize because it contradicts the utilitarian “needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one” Vulcan philosophy.

I’m not sure Tuvok and Neelix retained any memories of being merged into one being.

Tuvok most likely wasn’t thrilled with having been merged with Neelix. He was often annoyed by the Talaxian.

I disagree. Rather than having a character say it out loud after the fact, it’s better for them to say as little as possible and let the audience make that call. It’s better art, and probably why we’re still debating the episode all these years later.

Seconded. The whole point is for this very article. For the fans to debate it and do what trek does best. Question the morality in the seemingly every day decisions we make.

You disagree but you’re also an idiot. Because non verbally suggesting it wasn’t even part of the episode, no matter how much anyone tried to say otherwise 30 years later.

Besides, tuvok counseling Janeway on her decisions was a common element of the series. So it would have been perfectly fitting and ironic if when he went to her this time, it wasn’t “stop worrying you did what you had to do,” like he usually says, it was “you fucked up.”

You disagree but you’re also an idjit. Because non verbally suggesting it wasn’t even part of the episode, no matter how much anyone tried to say otherwise 30 years later.

Besides, tuvok counseling Janeway on her decisions was a common element of the series. So it would have been perfectly fitting and ironic if when he went to her this time, it wasn’t “stop worrying you did what you had to do,” like he usually says, it was “you effed up.”

I wasn’t saying anything was nonverbally communicated. It was all left for the audience to judge whether Janeway’s decision was right or not. Which is, I think, a good bit of writing.

And if you can’t converse with others without hurling insults, then don’t bother. It makes you look petty and juvenile, and it hurts your argument. Regardless of your age, obviously you have some growing up to do. Good luck.

I know it is not apples to apples, but Janeway’s decision is similar to the impossible moral quandary faced by Captain Archer in Enterprise, when he had to choose saving the life of his incumbent engineer Trip, even though it meant the death of Sim. Maybe the show just didn’t have the fanbase that Voyager had, but I don’t recall a large amount of anger or dismay over the episode Similtude. In fact I think it is heralded by many as one of the best episodes of Enterprise.

Some plot differences contribute to the difference in reaction: The procedure that would lengthen sim’s life was experimental and unproven, meaning if they tried it and it failed, both he and Trip would both die, while on a mission where he was desperately needed. Not to mention that sim’s natural lifespan was merely days anyway— if they did nothing, it would have been the same result.

When it comes to Tuvix, there’s no reason they couldn’t continue with him as their tactical officer and cook, they simply killed him because they missed their friends, Tuvok and Neelix, and had no respect for his autonomy or right to self determination.

Plenty of ways around that controversial ending: write it so that there’s no choice, have Tuvix sacrifice himself to save the ship, or even just have Janeway desperately hurt by the decision.

Janeway’s decision also directly contradicted past decisions she’d made — like the very decision that got them stranded — and was wholly inconsistent with her character. And that nobody really defended Tuvix also contributed to the divisive response.

There is one huge difference there tho. Janeway was thinking about the lives of Tuvok and Neelix and getting her crew of 100+ people home. Archer was having PTSD from Earth’s attack, he was on a mission to save ALL of Earth, he KNEW he was breaking his morals, and he was just like, the mission had to continue.

Couldn’t disagree with Robert more: yes, it’s all made-up science, and they could have easily come up with some hand-waving technobabble to keep Tuvix alive somehow. But that would have completely destroyed the dramatic thrust of the episode. It would have been the boring, cowardly way out, reducing the story into just another disposable “problem of the week” instead of this controversial, difficult, heartbreaking tale that we’re still talking about today.

He suggests Janeway’s decision “hurt her character”, but — I mean, YEAH — for me, that was the point. She was put into an impossible situation and there was no call she could make that would have satisfied everyone. For me that didn’t take away from her character, it added a good chunk of depth.

But all of this is also what makes the episode so great: there’s so many interpretations of it that are all completely valid. That we can look at this story and the choices it made and have such varied, emotional reactions to it is impressive. That’s damned good TV. :)

Exactly. You can always count on Janeway to make a decision even when there are no good options available.

Couldn’t disagree with Robert more: yes, it’s all made-up science, and they could have easily come up with some hand-waving technobabble to keep Tuvix alive somehow. But that would have completely destroyed the dramatic thrust of the episode.

Let’s all hang on to those Tom Paris commemorative plates, tho.

This, exactly!

On point man, on point! 👍

“She was put into an impossible situation”.

No. No, she wasn’t in an impossible position. It wasn’t her place to play God. What happened happened. She committed a murder. She could have just…not.

Nope disagree. She brought back two people who she could bring back from a transporter accident. Tuvix was never supposed to exist. Needs of the two outweigh the needs of the one accident. People that were vital to the crew and valued as such.

But I love we’re having this same argument for over 20 years now. 😂

Ain’t Star Trek grand!

I agree completely. It was hard decision with no good choices, but given the two choices available, I think Janeway made the right one. And it’s clear that it was hard for her; Mulgrew’s face right after doing it … she made it clear that she was having to steel herself to do such a difficult thing.

While Tuvix was innocent, the fact is that his existence consumed two other lives; he doesn’t have the right to exist at the expense of two other people.

I’m always surprised at the controversy around this, because to me, the choice is agonizing but clear. I don’t have the right to eat you and your brother in order to fuel my own life.

Well, yes, but the question of rights is complicated by the fact that the situation was precipitated by an accident, not a conscious decision on the part of an individual to further its own existence at the expense of two others’. For better or worse, humans tend to make very different moral calculations in these circumstances given the context. “Tuvix” was in essence the VGR exploration of The Trolley Problem, and a pretty decent one at that. I just wish the series as a whole had taken those kinds of risks with its characters.

Yeah, I wish the writers of Voyager had taken more risks. “Tuvix” is an episode we’re still talking about decades later, but there aren’t many Voyager episodes we can say that about.

There aren’t that many Trek episodes across the franchise where those risks were taken.

Couldn’t agree with you more, Phil!

DS9’s “In the Pale Moonlight,” for me, falls into the same category of episodes as “Tuvix.” Sisko was in a no-win scenario too — compromise his principles or allow countless numbers of Federation officers to continue dying in the no-win war against the Dominon.

It’s Trek like this, despite GR’s stance on war in the Trek universe, that keeps us talking, debating, and engaging in issues that still effect us today.

I shoulda said “war and conflict”, not just “war”.

I barely remember this ep, possibly because I didn’t see it all the way through, but I have seen many discussions of it here and elsewhere. In comparing it with questionable Sisko decisions, I’m wondering if FOR THE UNIFORM might be a better comparison than MOONLIGHT, as I find Sisko’s behavior throughout UNIFORM about as abhorrent as I’ve found any lead Captain’s decision in Trek history, especially the call to poison a whole planet.

TOS’s City on the Edge of Forever falls into this catagory, IMO. I’m a bit stretched to think of an episode of TNG, maybe The Survivors and Lower Decks. This is also my opinion, but Twilight Zone tended to do a better job using sci-fi to hold a mirror up to the awfulness of the human condition. That’s a bit off topic, though.

I dont feel like many ppl debate moonlight tho… they took it easy. Sisko didn’t know Garrack was going to kill the Romulan. Janeway knew everything she was doing. Big difference.

Here’s the thing, hi by the way :-). There are more eps we could talk about. A lot more. We just don’t for some reason. Take Hope and Fear for example. Arturis was 100% right to blame Janeway for the death of his species. She was guilty. She sided with the borg just to get her crew of 100 ppl home and entire civilizations either died or were assimilated. Later she said, “ you have to understand, I couldn’t have known.” And she is right. She couldn’t have known. But that is why the Prime Directive exists. Because you can’t know. If you could know, then interfere all you want. For all the complaining she did about Kirk and Spock and Sulu never being worthy of being in Starfleet in the 24th century that she did in Flashback (I will NEVER forgive her character for that) she did WAY worse then they ever did and then got promoted for it.

Certainly there are other episodes we could talk about; I didn’t mean to suggest that no other episodes bear discussion. But “Tuvix” seems to me to be alone in provoking truly passionate discussion among huge numbers of fans, even all these years later.

And hello to you, too. :-)

LOL I know and I agree you are not wrong. What I meant to say is that for some reason we never focus on the other eps, just Tuvix. Not saying that you specifically were saying such. It was me commenting on the population at large lol. Hope all is well with you!!!

Take Hope and Fear for example. Arturis was 100% right to blame Janeway for the death of his species. She was guilty. She sided with the borg just to get her crew of 100 ppl home and entire civilizations either died or were assimilated. Later she said, “ you have to understand, I couldn’t have known.” And she is right. She couldn’t have known. But that is why the Prime Directive exists. Because you can’t know. If you could know, then interfere all you want. For all the complaining she did about Kirk and Spock and Sulu never being worthy of being in Starfleet in the 24th century that she did in Flashback (I will NEVER forgive her character for that) she did WAY worse then they ever did and then got promoted for it.

This is a great summary of why I have considered Janeway near the bottom of my Captains list, which goes, in order: Kirk, Sisko, Pike, Picard, Michael, Archer, Janeway, Freeman.

As you and I have discussed before, I think, minimally (i.e. if Starfleet was too chick-shit to do a formal investigation/court martial), she should have been held at the rank of Captain indefinitely instead of the promotion to Admiral — which I view as good PR for Starfleet given the great news story of Voyager’s return, with Starfleet brass deciding to sweep these very poor decisions/prime directive crimes under the rug.

Yuppers totally agree. The fact that she got her crew home totally overshadowed the war crimes she committed. But at least an acknowledgement of them on the show would have been nice.

Well, yes, but the question of rights is complicated by the fact that the situation was precipitated by an accident, not a conscious decision on the part of an individual to further its own existence at the expense of two others.

Exactly. The accident resulted in the murder of two characters. But the second murder was ordered on purpose by Janeway. Huge difference, and I think actually she could have been prosecuted in a court martial for that if Starfleet wanted to bring charges — from a legal perspective, I think that could be prosecuted as murder.

Tuvok and Neelix were not murdered. That is a gross exaggeration. They were lost in an accident. Tuvix was literally ordered to end his existence. The former was an accident. The latter was a choice. That is the difference and why Janeway was wrong.

Actually that’s what I was trying to say, but you just said it better than me.

And I do think that being an accessory to a suicide ordered by you is pretty shaky on legal grounds for a captain

Oh, oops! Sorry, I’m tired. Long day yesterday LOL!

Michael, that John Black script preceding GR’s version of THE MENAGERIE I told you about is now available to read online, according to this link (and again, alas, same as the one I have, it is only ‘part two’ … ) It’s at that other trek site bbs with a thread title of FROM THE FIRST DAY TO THE LAST (am not posting link because it seems like that causes problems.)

If you read it, let me know what you think (it is really only act iv that is the big deal to me, and one that could have been immensely significant for Kirk’s character as well as the Trek universe.)

This episode is what made me love Janeway even more! 🙂

Her face at the end was someone who just did the hardest thing in her life but for Star Trek it’s just another Tuesday. But she made a decision that she thought was best for her ship and crew and I always admired for making the tough calls and always doing what has to be done.

Tough Captain from beginning to end!

Yes! Janeway is a kind person who will listen to her crew, but she’s also very firmly THE CAPTAIN. That’s a hard balance to strike, and they were SO lucky that got Mulgrew to portray it. Much as I like the current Star Trek shows, I don’t know if Sonequa Martin-Green or Anson Mount could have shown us BOTH sides — the kind listener and the tough-as-nails leader — the way Mulgrew did.

Kate is a top-tier performer, no doubt about it! Only someone with her skills at nuance could play both sides and SHOW us, not tell us, of the conflict boiling within Janeway.

Yes! We really lucked out, getting her.

So you figure if they had stuck with French Janeway that she’d still be debating the issue instead of taking action?

Totally agree. I might not like Janeway but I LOVE Kate Mulgrew!

Kate Mulgrew is on another level. Why I hope we see her back in live action as Captain Janeway. Excited to see her in Prodigy but I want to see her in uniform again! And I think we will! 🙂

I think it depends on if Paramount gets sold, and to whom.

She’s got two roles on one of the series already. They only have a limited number of slots to bring in these legacy characters, so I’d really like to see one of the DS9 cast brought back first before we give Mulgrew yet another role. She’s covered already.

BTW I totally miss you! Plan to be back on TrekCre more when I guess Discovery starts again. We will be torturing ourselves through it like nearly every season! 😂🙄

But maybe next season will be different. Anyway always great to see you honey!

I miss you, too! I’ll be glad when there’s new Trek to discuss on Trek Core, so I can hang out with you and AmiRami and Locutus and Eric Cheung and iMike and all the gang.

Totally!!! I love hanging out with all you guys there. It’s always a fun party every week, especially with my boy Amirami! 😀

Miss you too buddy!

LOL maybe I should join Trek-core again! I like parties too. ;D

And they have an ignore button there so easier to avoid the party poopers.

Hey .. you’re always invited! 🙂

Hey! What about me?!?! LOL!

I mentioned you!!! Read again!

I can hang out with you and AmiRami and Locutus and Eric Cheung and iMike and all the gang.

LOL oops!!!!!!! Sorry Last night was a late night hahahahah! Not for bad reasons, don’t worry :-P

I hope you are not mad at me :(

No, of course not! Just feeling low in energy (and hence not very chatty) today.

Ok, thank you! Feel better!

You’re included too man!!! 😀

Oops, that was my bad hahaha, it’s been a long week!

No worries buddy! It’s a lot of posts here too so easy to miss! 🙂

I truly miss the old stomping grounds though.

I gotta disagree with all due respect my friend. I agree Tuvix wasn’t born the way Tuvok or Nelix was and this wasn’t supposed to happen. But nothing in Voyager was supposed to happen. The crew was never supposed to be pulled into the Delta quadrant in the first place. If Janeway was to use that same logic, she should have sent the crew home in the very first ep.

I know Star Trek does not believe in fate but they do believe in the prime directive. What happened happened. Tuvix is a new life and it is their job to seek out new life, not destroy it, even if it means their lives. And Janeway, as per usual, did the exact opposite.

Exactly! And that’s been a recurring problem with her — she’s a hypocrite on the prime directive.

It’s just… I can’t even with her on that show… I do admit tho I like her a LOT more on Prodigy!

I love the Holo Janeway on Prodigy, but bringing in the “live” Janeway as well just reaked of fan service overkill…and then Chakotay of all characters too…lol

Ha well lets see how it goes next season

I absolutely love her on Prodigy too! But she will always have my heart on Voyager of course. Sisko also broke the Prime Directive but their backs were to the wall. Archer and Kirk also broke it (OK there was no Prime Directive for Archer but still). They can’t all be Picard.

Yeah, they all had their moments to be sure. Even Picard when saving uugghh Wesley.

Disagree away my friend! 🙂

But if this was a story about two infant babies being merged into one baby from two different mothers and they had a way to bring them back…I don’t think it would be much that of a discussion. Or maybe I can be wrong on that.

And the needs of the two outweigh the needs of the one. Star Trek taught us that too.

But that’s why I love this discussion, everyone will just see it in their way like abortion.

And if Janeway got them home in Caretaker we wouldn’t have a show lol. But I got you for sure!

Well ya about Caretaker hahahaha

“But if this was a story about two infant babies being merged into one baby from two different mothers and they had a way to bring them back…I don’t think it would be much that of a discussion.”

Wow, yes, I think this argument would make it even much more sensitive. Imagine how that would’ve played out lol. But maybe the mothers would’ve accepted it but it makes it clear it’s not black and white either. The reality is if you could bring back someone most people would obviously. What complicates it is you are ending a new life for theirs but that life only exists because the other life was effectively killed to create them. None of this is simple, not in the least. No matter what people would be upset about it. 

Yeah, exactly. What happened with Tuvix was an accidentally murder of two characters that was not the result of a Janeway action, but then when it’s her decision, she orders murder of a character.

It is what it is. Yeah, it would have sucked to have lost Tuvok, but can you imagine if for once in Star Trek, we could see a main character die on a series how great that would be in terms of upping the suspense and gravitas of the show? Knowing everyone is going to come out fine every single week is rather boring and unconvincing.

I think there would not be such heated disagreements among fans if Neelix had been a character that everyone deeply loved and identified with. Tuvox was somewhat liked, but not loved the way Spock was. The idea that Janeway would blithely destroy the lives of two individuals that did not connect on a fundamental level to most of the fandom in order to allow a more likeable character to live is the real quandary that most of us don’t want to admit. It would be a little more tangible if one imagines Captain Picard and Geordie LaForge merged. It’s easy to see that the rationale becomes “will the original two individuals be missed”. We all would want two of our favorite characters returned to themselves. This episode of Voyager was to be a philosophical query. Personally, I would have done what Janeway did. In the accidental merging of the two individuals, their self actualization was taken from them without their consent and thy deserved to have that restored to them.

While I don’t agree with your conclusion, you make a lot of good points here.

Totally agree with you. With all due respect to him, if they do that, then don’t even make the episode because why bother.

but it has no lasting consequences and that why it does not work in the end

It was a command decision. She weighed her choices and had to live with it the rest of her days. It was in my opinion, the correct thing to do.

LOL @ live with it. She forgot it and it was never brought up again.

The problem is, it broke the prime directive.

Agreed. This is why being the captain is hard lol. But I totally agreed with her decision just the same!

They could have used the same process that split Will Riker into Will and Thomas to duplicate Tuvix to keep one of him and split the other one back into Tuvok and Neelix…

I mean, you’re still Tuvixing a guy at the end of the day. Same problem, but now you’ve made it incredibly awkward for the surviving Tuvix. 😆

The copy need not survive transport, though. it can be split in the buffer before it technically exists.

They could have combined the two processes, a copy and split in the one go. ;)

The process that split Riker into two was an accident, and IIRC that episode correctly there were specific atmospheric conditions on that planet. Probably not easy to duplicate.

But not impossible if they have all the facts at hand.

But wouldn’t the other Tuvix also have a will to live? I think you would end up with the same conundrum.

Ah, the technobabble transporter BUFFER — the BS plot device that keeps on giving and giving and giving…lol

Brilliant! :D

Thanks! heh

That’s a great suggestion. The issue tho is that when Will and Thomas were created into two, both were their own sentient beings and were defined as being separate beings from one another. The moral dilemma would have still existed IMHO ,

The copy need not materialize, though. The split can happen while it is still energy in the transport buffer.

Hmm, interesting. But Transporters are a tricky thing. Remember Pulaski being reversed in age to her normal age in the horrible TNG S2? If you show too many stories where the transporter can do so many amazing things then life starts to be eternal and all the drama of the story gets pulled out of everything.

Well, at one point everything that has been done in Star Trek coalesces. Lower Decks does that sort of thing all the time, where they use plot points from previous series for comedic effect. Here, it would be used for dramatic effect.

Fundamentally, Janeway using the Riker incident to solve the Tuvix conundrum is not that different from Picard consulting the events from The Naked Time to solve the problem in The Naked Now.

It’s one captain using events from a previous mission to solve a current dilemma.

Bro at this point the only thing transporters haven’t done yet is become sentient on their own lol.

These things have done every crazy thing you can think of. They are the biggest plot devices ever created in science fiction. We literally seen people time travel and jump to other universes on them as well. Creating new life almost feels mundane at this point.

My feeling about Janeway here is that these are the hard decisions that only she can make, for the greater good, separating herself beyond the explorer, beyond the personal feelings, but as a Starfleet Captain to maintain order. Mulgrew was and is a true diamond-caliber actor, allowing small facial movements to convey emotion when her words and actions could not. We all loved Tuvix as a character, but this was about not letting us forget that the Captain remains above and separate from the crew/”the family”. I dig these episodes (see also The Omega Directive) where she is above all THE CAPTAIN.

Well. I guess they could have tried to Tom Riker him.

Spin off series! Let’s bring back Tuvix with his own show!

Don’t give Kurtzman ideas…

I completely ageed with Janeway’s decision back then and do today. And take note how much I always hated Neelix so I’m not biased.

The needs of the two..

And this was what made Voyager unique to the other shows. Maybe if she was in Federation space where she could consult with other scientists or even sent him to a lab to try and keep all three then maybe they could’ve found another way. But options were limited in the DQ and no matter what she did she would’ve gotten flack for it. That’s why this is a great episode! Star Trek moral quandaries in the worst way possible.

With that bonehead decision on top of the deal with the devil with the Borg that basically sentenced millions to be a assimilated, her star fell in my view. I was frankly kind of surprised she made Admiral given poor decisions like that. She tended to overthink those big decisions and not go with what she knew was right.

PS: Also, all that for borderline pedo-phile Neelix… Are you kidding me? Save the Jeffrey Epstein of Star Trek over Tuvix?

Trek has glossed over that command training in Starfleet does actually involve life and death decisions. Even in TNG’s Thine Own Self, Troi really had to be coached along into ordering the LaForge simulation to his simulated death in the engine room before she passed. She probably should have been washed out for that. Janeway was presented with a lesser of two evils dilemma, and to the writer’s credit they didn’t create some bulls**t deus ex machina out for Janeway having to make a difficult decision. Life doesn’t always give us happy endings, any decision Janeway was going to make would not have been satisfying…

Well for me, if it’s the creepy old dude who’s banging a questionably legal teenager every night on my own ship versus Tuvix, I’m going Tuvix every time.

Robert Duncan McNeill is 100% right on this one

Ceating your own context again, I see. In universe Ocampians only lived eight or nine years, so in human years she was 25-30 when she came on board at the ripe old Ocampian age of 2.

Opinions have varied on this for a long time now….

That sounds like a really convenient excuse to live with a woman who looks 17 at most. And unfortunately, Neelix fits the part of sug-dad dude to a T.

The optics are horrible. What were they thinking?

Jennifer Lien, who played Kes, was 21 in 1995, when Voyager began.

Wow, she looked so much younger than that!

We can say whatever we want in terms of the supposed alien ages and the age of the actress, but the optics to me look like kind of a pudgy old dude playing sugar-ddy to, and banging a questionably legal teenager.

I actually agree with you. Not only was Lien playing an alien that only lives till 9, she played her as an innocent child who literally didn’t know the universe outside her tiny world. Neelix AND Tom absolutely took advantage of her. That character would never exist in today’s TV.

Neelix AND Tom absolutely took advantage of her. That character would never exist in today’s TV.

Speaking of 17, in TNG’s Tapestry, it’s 52 year old Patrick Stewart playing tonsil hocky with 17 year old JC Brandy. I’m trusting you find these optics horrible, as well.

Not great, but it’s not like he was her sugar-ddy and having intimate relations with her for years.

Tom Paris also wanted to date Kes too. 😉

But Paris would date anything that moved at the time.

It’s not Earth 1987, it’s a totally different species with a different life cycle on the other side of the galaxy. And unless they stick with just Ocampans, every species will be just older. Imagine being a Q who is billions of years old and decides to date a humanoid. Now that’s an age gap. 😂

LOL the fights Paris and Neelix had over Kes were hilarious.

I don’t get into the Kes age thing stuff but yes she an a-l-i-e-n and they simply age differently than humans and where other aliens who has been involved with multiple other species understands that. But yes, I get it, we’re still humans watching a fictional TV show, so we’re going to have our own subjective norms over things like this. It’s the same issue with gay and lesbian stories. People still have a problem with that even when it’s about a-l-i-e-n-s who don’t have the same hang ups or cultural norms, but I digress on that as well.

In other words I don’t get on Paris case for liking Kes and who I remind others he married her in an alternative timeline and even had a baby together. That’s because she’s, say it again, an alien with different life cycles.

Yeah, Tuvix >> Neelix for the reasons you stated. The Neelix-Kes relationship looked bad to me then. Now, it looks horrible to most people.

That was a really really bad decision creation of the writers, both the characters and their relationship.

“Yeah, Tuvix >> Neelix for the reasons you stated. The Neelix-Kes relationship looked bad to me then. Now, it looks horrible to most people. That was a really really bad decision creation of the writers, both the characters and their relationship.”

100% — AND IT’S SO FREAKING CREEPY!!!

The problem isn’t so much the actors ages (21 and 40, respectively), but that in-universe explanation on the incredibly short life span of Ocampians. Had Ms. Lien stayed on for the series run, they would have had to have her die of old age by the seventh season. Then we’d of been treated to creepy conversations about Neelix getting busy with a much older partner. Strange that Patrick Stewart doesn’t draw much criticism for frenching the 17 year old actress in the episode Tapestry. That’s a 35 year age difference, and she was actually a minor.

Actually that’s not completely true. They had introduced Ocampans being as old as 15 years old in the second season episode Cold Fire where they met the second Caretaker.

They were probably setting up the idea she would go to live much longer and given her special cognitive powers.

They weren’t very consistent with that since they showed an elderly Kes in the episode ‘Before and After’ and again in ‘Fury’.

Had Kes stayed a regular on the show, then I can see them finding a sci-fi way to keep her looking younger (the bio-temporal chamber) so Jennifer Lien wouldn’t need to spend the rest of the series wearing geriatric makeup. But since they let her go from the show, it seems they decided to stick with the original life span for the Ocampans.

This is Star Trek, characters have died multiple times and come back and like nothing happened. I’m pretty sure if she stayed on the show she would’ve just looked like the actors age. Fury was a one and done episode and she was no longer a regular so it didn’t really matter.

Well said — there was a head scratching lack of consistency on this,

No they weren’t very consistent, but again this is Star Trek lol. Every week Spock had some new Vulcan super power that wasn’t mentioned again. The Borg, Klingons, Trills and Romulans had all gone through several iterations over the years since their first introductions in both looks and development.

I’m guessing Kes would’ve looked the same as well. In fact, the other Ocampian Tanis that TG1701 brought up didn’t look old at all. He looked older because the actor himself was in his 40s at the time, and was played by Ambassador Soval himself, Gary Graham, but didn’t look elderly either.

I suspect Kes would’ve just looked slightly older if she stayed but that’s it.

OMG I forgot he was played the same actor who played Soval! Cool!

For the record I never liked Kes that much either but I would’ve kept her 10 times over Neelix. But I would keep him 10 times over Burnham…ugh.

Where was I going with this? Oh yeah, I don’t think they would’ve ever put old lady make up on her either.

Actually what I always find funny on Star Trek is all these aliens are supposed to be super old from Tuvok to Phlox and they all look so young lol. I was shocked to learn Tuvok was over 100 years old but I guess Vulcan black don’t crack! 😁

Isn’t T’Pol in her 60s on Enterprise too? I know that’s young for Vulcans but c’mon??

Anyway the evidence is quite overwhelming being old on Star Trek is not the same as looking old unless you’re just a boring human. Kes probably would’ve looked younger as she got older. 😉

“  There wasn’t enough justification for losing two entities for the sake of one…  ”

So ironically, the one person that sides with me on the issue of Tuvix… is Tuvix himself. :-) Fascinating.

Love this episode. There was no right answer but I think she made the best decision overall.

It was a difficult decision for her, but she’s the captain and that’s who has to make those kinds of decisions. I’m sure she didn’t like being in that situation, but it comes with the territory of responsibility.

It didn’t really hurt my opinion of her. What it did do was remind me that someone in her position doesn’t have the luxury of pleasing everyone.

Damn right man! Dann right! 👍

I respected her more after that, not less. It wasn’t easy for her but Janeway pushes through. It’s like when Captain Burnham manages to stop herself from crying. Same thing… sort of.

I was so relieved when Janeway corrected the transporter mistake and brought back Tuvok and Neelix. She made the best decision for the situation IMO. I’m sure Tuvok and Neelix thanked her. The needs of the many and all that.

…Could there have been a thing that doctor said like, ‘If you do this we’ll save some DNA. Maybe in the future I can come up with a way to bring Tuvix back…” McNeill also suggested that one way to resolve the dilemma would be to take Janeway out of the final decision and have Tuvix “heroically” decide to sacrifice himself.

Well, there’s a reason why there’s actors, and there’s writers, and mixing the two doesn’t always work.

People talk about this episode because of the moral dilemma. A technobabble deus ex machina would have made it pedestrian.

Incidentally, ENT “Similitude” presented a similar issue; I consider it one of ENT’s best.

Oh, it’s one of Voyager’s best because Janeway was faced with that no-win scenario and was forced to decide without the benefit of BS deus ex machina story gimmicks. A great episode that proves my point: Voyager should have been a darker show about the exploration of what these people would do when pushed to their limits, not “Hey, Harry, what’s new on the holodeck this week?”

I agree with you on all counts. This episode was great because there was no perfect solution. And, yeah, a lot of the potential in Voyager’s setup was squandered. It didn’t fully utilize the potential and that kept it imo, from really carving out a unique niche from TNG. At least one of the reasons for that was Paramount who wanted Voyager to replace TNG and didn’t want it to diverge much from the TNG formula. Ron Moore, when he was finished with DS9, came over to Voyager and wanted to shake it up and make it darker and more dramatic but was rebuffed by Brannon Braga, which led to their estrangement. Of course, Moore got to do what he wanted, and then some, with his Battlestar Galactica reboot.

You diagnosed it perfectly — Paramount wanted another TNG and it certainly wasn’t DS9.

And, yeah, a lot of the potential in Voyager’s setup was squandered. It didn’t fully utilize the potential and that kept it imo, from really carving out a unique niche from TNG. 

Unfortunately VOY premise was just ahead of its time when episodic TV still ruled the airwaves. The irony is if they rebooted the show today it would’ve been very serialized and could’ve captured the premise better like Discovery and Picard…but I don’t think those are great examples either lol.

I don’t think you can *entirely* blame it on the “before its time” theory, though. DS9 and B5 had already given us serialized storylines.

I think part of the problem is that the writers didn’t want to give us a second morose series. They wanted the audience to be gung-ho about shipping out under Captain Janeway; a series about a crew barely on the edge of survival week after week wasn’t that. And frankly…while I agree VOY didn’t live up to its premise, I also see how that view isn’t entirely wrong.

I liked ENT’s approach or exploring deep space, but not *entirely* cutting the apron streams to the known universe, better.

DS9 got away with it because it wasn’t on a network. This has been stated many times. In fact Ira Stephen Behr has said once the ratings didn’t gel like it did for DS9 like it did TNG, they were basically ignored by the studio and was allowed to basically do what they wanted. VOY didn’t have the same luxury because they were still the face of a fledgling network. By the time ENT showed up, serialization was becoming a bigger deal on network TV and was allowed to experiment more in general and I thought did a great job with it…certainly waaay better than DIS or PIC lol. But yes DS9 became an amazing show (IMO) due to that decision.

Never seen B5 so can’t speak to that show but it too wasn’t on a network at the time either.

Anyway, I’m not suggesting that VOY had troubles for that reason alone obviously but I do think they really wanted a TOS/TNG alien/crisis of the week type of show and where it’s premise suffered for it.

Y’know, there were A LOT of technobabble deux ex machinas in TNG and VOY and probably a lot in DS9.

Very little of that in TOS, probably because they didn’t have the special effects technology?

I dunno, but I one of the things I loved about TOS was that, thanks to not having sfx technology of the time, they had to resort to more theatre and personal drama and grit.

I think the later shows, TNG-ENT, suffered a bit thanks to an overreliance on that technobabble.

Considering it’s maybe the most cited episode of Voyager, I think they did okay. And remind me not to hire milksop McNeill for the writers room of my proposed Starcrash reboot.

Janeway’s “coldness” was a professional mask for her sense of guilt — this makes it dramatically richer and more plausible.

Gotta say, this is probably one of the best episodes of Voyager, in that it is so controversial and well executed. Tom Wright really did imbue that Tuvix character with a lot of soul so that the audience, well me at least, instantly liked him and didn’t want him to go.

As for Janeway’s decision, here’s an analogy that I’ve thought of: It’s kind of like an organ donation, right? Two people in this case, die in an accident, and their organs are used for the life of a third. As Ethan Phillips said, there was no murder here. Tuvix was a complete innocent and had done absolutely nothing to deserve a death penalty.

The twist is, of course, that the entire process can be reversed. That is, Tuvok and Neelix can be resurrected but Tuvix has to die.

Ethically, I think I’m with Robbie McNeil on this one. I think Janeway, as much as I like her (Kate Mulgrew was perfect in the role), made the wrong decision in this case.

I think Tuvix would have worked as a character and it would have been interesting to see how his relationships developed with the other characters. How to resolve that relationship with Kes (though I’ve always extremely Neelix-Kes relationship). And, again, as they discussed in the talk, what about Tuvok’s love for his wife? Eventually, when they regained contact with the Alpha Quadrant, how would she have taken her husband being replaced by Tuvix? So there’s a lot of possibilities for the writers there. And, again, I think it’s obvious that Tom Wright was a really good actor who could’ve continued to add layers to this character.

Finally, no more Neelix! I’ve always really really disliked that character. I find him irritating and grating. It’s nothing personal for Ethan Phillips, who I consider a good actor, it’s just the character and the relationship with Kes, who is essentially a 9 year old innocent. I think the two were just bad decisions by the creators.

So, imo, all of that would’ve been a plus with keeping Tuvix. The only downside would’ve been the loss of Tuvok. Tuvok is one of the characters I really like on Voyager and I was very impressed by the way Tim Russ brought that character to life. He was in a tough place being the first featured Vulcan since Nimoy and Lenard, and, imo, Russ just did great. I honestly wish we’d had more episodes featuring that character who was Vulcan but definitely was his own man and not Spock at all.

Finally, no more Neelix! I’ve always really really disliked that character. I find him irritating and grating. It’s nothing personal for Ethan Phillips, who I consider a good actor, it’s just the character and the relationship with Kes, who is essentially a 9 year old innocent. I think the two were just bad decisions by the creators .

I mean, today here in 2024 Neelix looks like the Jeffrey Epstein of Star Trek. Neelix is “that dude” who goes to high school sports game to see the cheerleaders, and who has an only-fans account.

Yeah, I know, that’s what I’ve been saying for years. He’s the truck-driving man who picks up a teenage girl who wants to get away from her folks.

And they had a female creator for Voyager, Jeri Taylor there too? I find it hard to believe they messed this up so badly, even then? Did any of these folks have daughters?!??!

I just never ever took a liking to those two characters and I thought the relationship between them was creepy, forced, and just distasteful. I wasn’t sorry to see Kes leave, but I wish Neelix had gone with her.

Again, it’s not personal to Phillips or Lien. I understand Lien had done some good work as an actress and Mulgrew really thought she was great and was very sorry to see her leave. It wasn’t her fault, the writers and creators were the ones who failed, not her at all. I wish she had been treated better and I’m sorry to hear about her difficulties. Life can hurt a lot.

I also didn’t care much for Chakotay and Kim. I always thought it would’ve been interesting if they’d killed off some of the low-hanging fruit in Voyager and replaced them with new characters. Kind of like Doctor Who. It certainly worked with Jeri Ryan’s excellent Seven of Nine. Seven was probably my favorite for some reason…

Yeah, I know, that’s what I’ve been saying for years. He’s the truck-driving man who picks up a teenage girl who wants to get away from her folks.

Neelix Is the Jeffrey Epstein of Star Trek.

I support Janeway. However, we are still debating the moral implications almost 30 years later and that is great Star Trek. It’s the Star Trek I miss.

I liked how it didn’t tell the audience how they were supposed to or should feel about the morality of Janeway’s decision. That episode sparked many years of debate. It really was good Star Trek.

Definitely! 👍

I really like SNW and love LDS but I miss these kinds of stories old Trek did very well. I love 30 years later we’re still debating it and there is truly no right call… only in the eyes of the beholder.

It’s fun to see how divided this board still is which means so many decades later everyone is still passionate over the outcome.

This is Star Trek at it’s best!

But at least we can all agree on one thing…

There are 4 lights!

So true my friend….so true!

So true my bestie!

I honestly love it whenever the debate on Tuvix comes up. Few things in the franchise spark the same level of discussion as Janeway’s decision. But I love it. it’s one of the few examples in the franchise where an episode shows the captain face an actual no win scenario (an actual Kobayashi Maru) and have to make a decision. If there’d been some easy technobabble way out or self sacrifice on tuvix’s part. It would’ve made the episode/story less and there’s no way it would provoke the same discussion that it does. Honestly love seeing the people actually involved in the episode giving there thoughts.

Doesn’t the transporter keep a record of everyone’s pattern? How about taking some of Tuvix’s unique DNA , saving it, and saving his transporter pattern/record. Then it could be a matter of Janeway saying to him “I must have Neelix and Tuvok back…but we will do everything in our power to find some way to restore you.”

It could end with the promise of bringing him back. And in a future episode they could bring him back using his dna and the transporter pattern and a Neelix having a problem with that as he didn’t give his permission. It becomes an ethical dilemma and debate…one which is resolved with Tuvix’s death because both the transporter pattern and saved dna combination prove to be unstable…and he dies.

Given that neither Tuvok nor Neelix asked to be combined, AND that there was a way to de-combine them, Janeway’s clear responsibility was to do so. Every Trek captain worth a s–t would have made the same decision.

Not Nu-Trek Captains. They would cry and hug and invite the newly combined transporter accident to a brunch with the crew while making sure the audience is told how wrong it would be to give the two people back their separate lives.

Seriously: compare that awful SNW episode about Spock becoming human with “Tuvix.”

The SNW episode ‘Charades’ was meant to be a comedy. I’m not sure we would be talking about Tuvix decades later had it been a comedy episode as well.

For me, this is what I come back to over and over again and why I agreed with her. I’m trying my best trying to imagine Kirk keeping Spock and McCoy combined together after an accident when he just lost not just two of his best friends but colleagues that’s been part of his crew from the beginning. Maybe not EVERY Captain would make the same decision but let’s not kid ourselves, most probably would because in their minds they are simply correcting a mistake that was never suppose to happen. Again you can certainly disagree, but I don’t know how many wouldn’t undo it; especially when you add to the reality no one even knows the long term effects of combing two people into one body. What if they found out Tuvix would simply have serious medical complications later on or simply have a much shorter life span than Tuvok or Neelix had, then what? There are so many questions with this when it’s never been done before and another reason why these decisions become even bigger hand wringers.

It would be interesting to find out if Janeway would have made the same decision had it been Ensigns Smith and Johnson who had been merged in a transporter malfunction instead of a crewmember she was personally close to.

I don’t think it would’ve mattered. Janeway wanted to get everyone home and my guess all as themselves lol. And that’s another thing, imagine getting the ship home and to their families to only discover what happened and now have to deal with basically a completely new person. Everything about this scenario was complicated.

I agree with you that Kirk would have absolutely saved Spock and McCoy over ‘Tuvix”. That does not make it right tho, Tuvix was an accident to be sure but it is something that happened. Splitting him was a deliberate choice. That makes Janeway literally responsible for his death whereas she was not responsible for the loss of Tuvok or Neelix. She is a criminal plain and simple.

And that’s the problem, he was an accident and why the argument still persists. It’s basically arguing whose life should be valued more? Everyone will see it differently especially when you can save the other lives as well. And as said, I think Kirk and most captains would’ve done the same thing. This is a very crazy situation. So we have to agree to disagree but I think people have been doing that with this episode for 28 years now lol. Someone else mentioned it, it is kind of similar to the abortion debate, NOT the same, just in terms of how passionate people are over it but there is no cut and dry answer even if one side believes it. If that was the case, both debates would’ve stopped long ago. That’s what makes it great IMO!

Yeah, but it’s really not so much that they would actually be tried as guilty, it’s just about them showing that they have to have some measure of freaking accountability for their possible crimes. Spock tried to save Pike — court martial. Una lied about her race — court martial. Michael was insubordinate to try to stop a war — court martial and prison. Kirk stole a ship but then saved Earth and the Federation…trial and demotion.

I just would have liked to have seen the writers have the guts to provide some accountability for Janeway’s possible crimes…even though she would likely prevail, it would have been nice to have known that Starfleet took other’s lives who were lost because of her decisions seriously.

BTW, Janeway’s lucky the Delta Quadrant is a long way off — because there are millions of families destroyed from her compromise with humanity’s number one enemy. Where is their justice…from their POV, Starfleet could care less about their sacrifice, because they got the great press and hero worship of a lost starship and captain returning! And not only does the Federation not give a sh*t, they promote the person who did this to freaking admiral?

I also think that being a starship captain — or frankly, in any leadership position — really lends itself to Kantian ethics. As Pike told us back in “The Cage,” the role necessarily involves deciding “who lives, and who dies.”

I so wish we would get some of that weighty Pike back, as we did in DISCO. Now it’s all He of The Dopey Grin.

I will point out that in the Menagerie — the follow-on to the Cage — Spock himself was held accountable with a Court Martial trial…and Kirk, even though he saved Earth, was tried and demoted to Captain for his crimes in Trek III, so he had some accountability. But unlike Kirk Spock — and also unlike Una in SNW and Michael in DSC — Janeway completely avoided any accountability with Starfleet for her possible crimes…free pass !

The fact is she didn’t get into any trouble for a reason; because she was in an unwinnable position and everyone knows it. Captains have to sometimes make the hard call. And as I said in my OP, there isn’t any laws for something like this lol.

I don’t mind ‘Dad Jokes Pike’ (someone called him that on Reddit lol), but I wish he could be a little more serious at times when it at least calls for it and not turn everything into a light moment…but it beats crying. ;)

I like to call him dad Pike myself! 😁

Not every Captain is going to be Kirk, Janeway or Sisko. Some just prefer a softer touch although that would’ve gotten Starfleet into a decades long war with Romulans because Dad Pike wanted to try and get to know the Romulans instead of blasting them out of the stars the Balance of Terror remake episode.

Not every one is equipped to deliver the pimp hand Sisko style…and that’s OK!

Janeway has had to make the hardest decisions on her own being so far away from Federation space and I give her mad respect for it! 😎

I’m not saying I agree with all her decisions… but I would never tell her to her face which ones I do disagree with! 😂

And Tuvix came off as a jerk. I’m not saying he deserved to be killed over it but I lost no sleep over it… none.

And my girlfriend was happy Neelix came back. 🙄

This is such an excellent episode and how awesome it is that we still talk and debate it. Trek needs to go back to this kind of storytelling. In terms of the debate, I think we need to look at it from two different perspectives. From an emotional, humanity perspective Janeway’s decision was wrong but from a logical more military perspective her decision was right. This is the difficult dilemma that leaders in general face, balancing the humanity, emotional side with the logical, disciplined side. I started feeling this more and more when I took on a more administrative role last year in my school and believe me it is never easy. So I can definitely relate with Janeway here. I think there wasn’t a single “right” decision here and Janeway had to make the decision that was “right” for her. I think it actually deepened her character and made her much more stronger. Sometimes I wonder though how the other Trek captains would have handled this situation, I think that is another debate in itself.

In the Mirror Universe, Tuvix lived because he was greater than the sum of his parts…

Here’s a question about Tuvix; he possessed both Tuvok’s logical mind and Neelix’ emotions.

When he went around arguing for his right to live, he was tapping into the latter. But what did his logical mind tell him was the logical course of action?

Did it make more logical sense for him to live or for Tuvok and Neelix to live?

Here’s the thing IMHO. Logic of Vulcans are learned behavior, not something genetic, We saw this when Tuvok was in love and a kid and wanted to reject Logic. Tuvix had no upbringing and thus no training in logic. So this emotions make sense. Add to that the fact that Neelix is probably the most emotional character in all of Trek history.

Someone smarter than me suggested to recreate the event that created Tom Riker. Then split one of the Tuvix’s into Nelix and Tuvok. Morally it still wouldn’t work tho as both Tuvix would still would have the right to exist.

In the end I am just as torn as anyone. But I have to come down on the side of Tuvix. Fate decided the destiny of Neelix and Tuvok. Janeway interfered. As she ALWAYS did throughout the series. For all her talk of Kirk and Spock and Sulu being thrown out of Starfleet if they served in the 24th century, she did abhorrent things (beyond this ep) that they never would have.

I think a really cool way to have ended VOY would have been a two-parter, “The Court Martial of Captain Janeway,” where they reviewed this and the horrendous Borg sellout decision during her time in the Delta Quadrant. And they could have given her some accountability, while still having a happy ending — the result should have been denial of the proposed promotion to Admiral, but allowing her to stay as Captain with a chance of getting the VOY back.

I agree with you but we both know that was never going to happen. Not only was VOY the only trek show on air at the end of its run, Janeway was the first female captain. They would never have put her in that position, even if you and I both know she deserved it.

Unfortunately, I agree.

This is a horribly sexist statement. Every Trek captain has taken controversial decisions, many of them more controversial than “Scorpion.”

And any prosecutor worth her salt is going to take a long, hard look at whether a prosecution over Tuvix is even winnable. The odds of convincing a jury of a prima facie case, much less that no extenuating circumstances applied, would be bleak.

I believe that Ami was talking about from Rick Berman/Brannon Braga’s perspective, not from Starfleet’s. And assuming that’s what he meant, I agree with him — that was a big deal in Star Trek to have the first female Captain, so I do think the lack of accountability for her actions was treated differently by the writers/showrunners/directors — in fact I can prove it:

Kirk, after saving Earth, the Federation Government and Starfleet Command, faced a trial and was demote to Captain for crimes he committed…Starfleet held Kirk accountable!

You see, Bennett and Nimoy thought this through correctly and realized that accountability still must be preserved in Star Trek. Berman and Braga were too chicken-sh*t to give Janeway some accountability for her criminal shortcuts.

No I don’t think he meant it that way either. Amirami is not sexist in the least.

But I don’t think they would’ve gotten very far trying to put Janeway on trial. She’s the first person who explored the Delta Quadrant and lived to tell about it and brought back a lot of data.

And Sisko poisoned an entire planet, that guy didn’t even get a warning over it lol. Did he even get a call from someone not to do it again. I’m pretty sure poisoning planets also goes against the Prime Directive too. I never read it but I’m pretty sure they at least frown against it

But you don’t mess with The Sisko either I guess! 😎

The one I feel sorrier for is Barclay after he read this mission report. Well, him or Troi after Barclay tells her he read this report. It’s a tie…

There is another element to it, which is Janeway had let the issue go on longer then perhaps it might have led to factionalism in the crew over what action to take. Perhaps there is an argument she had some responsibility for that reason to draw the situation to a conclusion quickly.

Should’ve made up a thing where they attempted to split him into 3 people, with a high risk. Then have the procedure fail.

Turning all three into goo puddles on the transporter pad?

That would’ve robbed the episode of the dramatic turmoil Janeway had to endure. Technobabble escape clauses have plagued Trek for years. “Tuvix” managed to face the issue head-on without any such deus ex machina gimmicks. THAT is why we’re still talking about it all these years later!

i feel like TNG would have had picard not kill Tuvix, but then have Tuvix volunteer to sacrifice himself and say he is grateful for the time he had to exist but its selfish of him to exist only by killing 2 others and that life is short and you should appreciate the time we get here and that we should always think of the greater good / others / needs of the many.

having said that the choice VOY made is maybe ahead of its time tv-wise. this is more of an antihero story / arc for Janeway. and that she made this decision with her head not her heart, her protocol not her feelings, that being a captain is making tough unpopular choices and her first duty is to protect her crew and tuvok and neelix were her crew and her responsibility is to save them and ensure their safety

Just repeat to yourself “It’s just a show, I should really just relax”

The irony is I’m always relaxed watching it, but it’s the opposite when discussing it lol.

It never ceases to amaze me that, nearly 28 years after this episode aired, no one, including the writers, seems to have realized what it’s really about. Maybe everyone will figure it out in another 28 years…

Well, are you going to offer up some insight here that may help people “figure it out”?

I admit, for me I can’t really give a fair assessment because I absolutely adore Janeway! I have loved this character for nearly 30 years now and she is still in my top five of favorites all this time and usually agree with her decisions. There has been times I have disagreed like Scorpion where I agreed with Chakotay more but overall I really do love this character and agreed with most of her decisions including this one. But to be more blunt about it, it’s divisive because there is no real world comparison to ever compare it to. What is considered ‘ethical’ is a fine line in a situation like this when I doubt there are any laws in Starfleet to deal with something like this either.

I know this may come off as a cop out for some, but there are plenty of complex issues that will never have one direct answer, period. The world is a much more greyer and nuance place than we see it as and a lot of this falls to our own collective values, culture and so on. That’s why in one county, something like gambling or taking drugs is completely illegal (and even death ;in the case of doing drugs in some places) but it’s the complete opposite in another where people are free to partake in these devices. There is just no right or wrong answers, most of the time, it just comes down to the people who arbitrarily decides what is right or wrong and what the rest of us follow to keep a society just or civil. That’s 90% of all religions out there.

But that’s why this episode is still such an amazing one. I don’t think anyone thought 30 years later we would still be debating it but here we are lol. So much so, Lower Decks revisited the issue last season in its opening episode. It’s a great thought experiment. No one can be proven right or wrong because it’s simply about whose life in the scenario should be given more priority and that will always be the issue because depending on who you ask they can simply interpret it differently as we see over and over again. It’s why Star Trek is such an amazing show when it takes issues like this head on.

Janeway is a literal murderer. She is responsible for the assimilation of entire worlds just because she was selfish and cared more about her tiny crew than an entire quadrant of the galaxy.

a crew she also put in danger by getting into space battles with aliens with more firepower than her ship

Doesn’t that happen in every Star Trek show though? I’m a little confused by this one.

That happened literally every week on Enterprise.

archer putting his underpowered ship-with only hull plating for defence- up against klingons, xindi or other advanced ships never made much sense either.

but both he and janeway should have been more considerate of the safety of their crews

Fair enough!

A. What gets missed over and over again is that Species 8472 was going to wipe out every species in the galaxy after they finished the Borg lol. Why does this tiny little detail gets ignored again and again? They literally told Janeway they were going to eradicate everyone else once they eliminated the Borg. It’s like saying you’re upset that someone didn’t wipe out the Nazis when they literally wanted to do what the Nazi’s planned to do anyway. So what am I missing? Janeway wasn’t just being ‘selfish’ she literally was in the middle of two advanced species trying to wipe out the galaxy and had to side with the less evil one to survive. Not just Voyager, literally everyone else too. Whoever won, the rest of us would lose. Species 8472 weren’t the ‘good guys’ in the story, they hated everyone else as much as the Borg did and made it clear when they literally tried to destroy Voyager lol. Again…what am I missing?

B. Then you can argue Picard was a murderer when he also had a chance to eradicate the Borg in ‘I, Borg’ but didn’t because he became friends with Hugh. They could’ve saved billions of lives as well but chose not to, correct? And that would’ve stopped them from trying to assimilate Spciecies 8472 as well several years later. But he didn’t, right? So is he responsible for the assimilation of entire worlds too?

C. This all became much ado about nothing once future Janeway showed up and literally wiped them out four years later anyway. So she eventually got around to it. ;)

Now if you still disagreed with her helping the Borg at all, then we agree on that. I was always against that as well but same time it was naive to assume all was going to be well in the universe if the Borg lost as stated. I agreed with Chakotay it was a risk and he was proven right lol. But we did get Seven out of it, so I’m not that bothered.

But no, I don’t agree with your argument at all.

It’s like saying you’re upset that someone didn’t wipe out the Nazis when they literally wanted to do what the Nazi’s planned to do anyway.

It isn’t even a hypothetical. The US and UK allied with “Uncle Joe” against Germany. (Indeed, Churchill said he would ally with the devil against Germany!)

Yes, an amazing real world example. Didn’t occur to me until you mentioned it. And look where we are with Russia today. Didn’t help long term but a bigger enemy (and an even bigger world crisis) was defeated just the same.

And another example from Star Trek itself was the Dominion war when the Federation aligned itself with the Romulans to defeat the Founders. The freaking Romulans that they were in a 200 year old conflict with. And we know what Sisko had to do to get them on their side.

That’s how these things go. Sure I loved watching the Borg getting its ass handed to them lol. It was the first time it had a real foe to contend with. The problem was Species 8472 weren’t going to stop once they were done with the Borg. They had made that clear several times and wasn’t looking to negotiate.

This idea Janeway did something bad is just a head scratcher. Species 8472 came to play and they knew it. Yes it was the Borg’s fault by waking a sleeping tiger but what was done was done.

Now I want to rewatch Scorpion again lol. It’s on the list for this weekend.

they made peace with 8472 in the end

Yeah thankfully they did, but not until after Species 8472 was looking for a way to invade Starfleet more discreetly. But it’s another reminder in the real world most of the countries America and others had conflicts with also became friends after it was over. We became deep allies with Germany, Italy and Japan but been divided with the Soviet Union once WW 2 ended. Just more proof you just never know how these things will shake out in the long term.

I’m guessing the Borg will pretty much stay Russia at this point lol.

I remember taking a bit more of a Kantian position on “I, Borg” when it came out, but in retrospect…yes, I think Picard’s decision was a flawed one. Troi’s argument that “there are no civilians among the Borg” was right.

Yeah, that’s certainly another one that was up for tremendous debate at the time. To make clear, I was on Picard’s side with that one too. I just don’t know how I feel about Starfleet in engaging in wholesale genocide regardless (but yeah it wasn’t the only time they thought about it lol). And yes Starfleet disagreed with his decision as well but they didn’t try to court martial him over it either.

But Star Trek is great when it can work within shades of grey at times because we then get amazing discussions like this thread! And it proves there isn’t always a direct answer.

I actually agree with you as well. Picard should’ve taken them all out but Crusher was constantly in his ear, “But Jean Luc it’s GENOCIDE, blah,blah, blah!”

Pipe down Beverly, he broke the Prime Directive and could’ve been drummed out of Starfleet after saving Wesley from instant death after he murdered several plants!

BE GRATEFUL, SHUT YOUR TRAP AND STOP WHINING ALREADY!!!

Sorry, I go on a rant sometimes.

Also think once they nearly killed Harry, she was like ‘Bleep it’ and looked at them as the enemy from that point on too.

I don’t think Species 8472 left her much of a choice. They were just really pissed off! Sure the Borg was still going to assimilate her crew too but you work with what you got! 😂

But I don’t disagree if she has the chance to wipe the Borg she should’ve taken it but the galaxy would’ve been Bleeped either way.

Scorpion is still one of my absolute favorite episodes. True story, that was the very episode of Star Trek I ever watched so it has a special place in my heart! ♥️

And I have gone back and forth over Janeway’s decision over the years too. But unlike Tuvix which isn’t clear cut at all, this one is IMO.

But it doesn’t mean people can’t question her actions but she helped saved the galaxy against an even bigger a-hole then the Borg. Who thought there would ever be an even worst species out there? 😂🙄

But in weird Star Trek fashion she ended up making peace with them and her future self basically neutered the Borg for the next 30 years so it oddly worked out?

Glass half full kids! 🙂

“But I don’t disagree if she has the chance to wipe the Borg she should’ve taken it but the galaxy would’ve been Bleeped either way.”

I always try to be as fair as I can about all these discussions. And by telling people up front how biased I am for Janeway also shows how fair I’m being lol.

Yes, I do agree Tuvix is a much more complicated issue. Again, I agree with what she did, never had an issue with it, but I can certainly understand why others do obviously. I can’t blame anyone if they wanted to see Janeway locked up over it. But it’s Janeway, a jail cell couldn’t hold this woman if it tried lol.

But the Borg/Species 8472 conflict isn’t as nuance when you’re trying to decide which a-hole has the better chance of wiping out the galaxy and you literally have to side with one of them to defeat the other. That’s just not a great place to be lol. Again, I’m certainly not saying Janeway couldn’t handled it better or shouldn’t have just dismissed any opposing side as she did with Chakotay; but my guess if they did nothing at all Species 8472 would’ve over ran the Delta Quadrant in about a years time once the Borg were gone. Who knows how long until they reached the Alpha Quadrant? And the Federation was still in the middle of the war dealing with the dominion.

Man, Star Trek had some really deadly foes back then lol.

This awful deal with the Borg forced millions of innocents into assimilation. This offense went way beyond violating the Prime Directive given it resulted in effective genocide of entire planets. Even though she viewed it as necessary, at a minimum, she should have faced court martial proceedings when she returned to Starfleet — then she could have made her case. Starfleet botched this by sweeping it under the rug due to the publicity and hero-worship treatment she got for bringing the VOY back…and they even promoted her to Admiral after these major crimes, which bordered on corruption by Starfleet in my opinion — in fact, one might even wonder if the Borg that we saw had already infiltrated Starfleet (which we found out about in Pic S3) had already infiltrated Starfleet enough at the time of the VOY’s return to give Janeway the assist she needed there so as to not bring unwanted attention to this Borg diplomatic victory over the Federation?

Plus in the Tuvix case here, she ordered another person to commit suicide. That’s got to be a Starfleet crime, regardless of whether the person agrees with the order. I mean, can you imagine if in today’s military the shitstorm that would result if a superior officer ordered someone under their command to commit suicide because they thought it best for his team? I think she should have been prosecuted in a court martial for that and that Starfleet should have brought charges on this after VOY’s return — from a legal perspective, I think that would be prosecuted as a murder.

With the Tuvix bad decision, on top of the deal with the devil with the Borg that basically sentenced millions to be a assimilated, her star fell in my view. I was frankly kind of surprised she made Admiral given poor decisions like that. She tended to overthink those big decisions and not go with what she knew was Starfleet-legal. She exhibited too much a cult of personality (I mean look at the fans here who worship her and defend these horrible decisions) with too little accountability regarding her seat-of-the-pants bad decisions while far away from Starfleet supervision.

In fact, she exhibited some of the same leadership character flaws like we saw Commodore Decker and Admiral Marcus in there careers — and those are two great examples of officers who never should have been promoted to captain. So I think, minimally (i.e. if Starfleet was too chick-shit to do a formal investigation/court martial), she should have been held at the rank of Captain indefinitely instead of the promotion to Admiral — which I view as good PR for Starfleet given the great news story of Voyager’s return, with Starfleet brass deciding to sweep these very poor decisions/prime directive crimes under the rug.

The showrunners missed an opportunity to address this at the conclusion of VOY. As we previously discussed, VOY should have ended with a two-parter, “The Court Martial of Captain Janeway,” where they reviewed these and other questionable decisions during her time in the Delta Quadrant. The court martial would have provided the accountability review that needed to happen here, but it still could have had a happy ending that VOY fans could appreciate — the result should have been denial of the proposed promotion to Admiral, but allowing her to stay as Captain with a chance of getting the VOY back…like what happened to Kirk after Trek 4.

Voy not a show know for that kind of self reflection. No wonder ron moore left after a few months in the writers room

Yea, after writing on DS9 with the legend Ira SB leading the effort, Braga and the VOY writers must have seemed like the The Amateur Hour to Moore.

I actually would’ve loved if Ron Moore stayed on VOY as well.

Maybe he would’ve saved us from whoever wrote ‘The Fight’. 🤮

Janeway is a literal murderer

I don’t think you quite know what “literal” means; perhaps you could start by telling us the elements of first-degree murder and applying them to the facts at hand?

Yeah I love Amirami but this argument makes no sense. But if you followed that logic and Janeway decided to let Species 8472 wipe out the Borg but then they go on to wipe out everyone else afterwards then wouldn’t she still be considered a murderer anyway?

I just don’t get it. But it’s fun to discuss it either way! :)

I can’t speak for Ami’s terminology, but if I was the Starfleet JAG, here are the two crimes I would file to support the convening of a formal court martial:

For the Borg Deal with Species Assimilated Case — Criminal Negligence that supports a Crime Against Humanity (i.e. Intelligent Life) Criminal Negligence is an action so out of the ordinary and dangerous that it’s impossible to separate it from actual intent. It goes beyond a mistake in judgement or being momentarily careless. Criminal negligence claims must create a risk of death or injury, as well as an indifference to human life. A Crime Against Humanity is a deliberate act, typically as part of a systematic campaign, that causes human suffering or death on a large scale.

For the Tuvox case — Aiding or Soliciting Suicide A person is guilty of aiding or soliciting suicide if he intentionally aids or solicits another to commit suicide, and the other commits or attempts suicide.  

Based on Janeway’s actions, these charges should have at least been investigated and then followed up with a formal Starfleet Court Martial proceeding. Janeway and her lawyer would of course provide some of the defenses mentioned by fans posting on this article, and the three judges would then determine if she was guilty or innocent.

If he’s talking about Tuvix, others agree with him including Captain Freeman. Amirami is my best friend but we do disagree on this.

But others do agree with him here and, even in the Star Trek world, so it’s not one sided.

To be honest I thought Tuvix was a jerk so I never lost any sleep about it.

Ok I see he was talking about the Borg situation. That’s not the same to me either but Amirami knows how much I respect him and we just have to agree to disagree. But if she has to murder anyone Neelix would be the top of my list and I’m convinced she would’ve been vindicated by any jury.

the thing that hurt was the ‘re set button’ washing away any consequences for her actions

Exactly! I mean for Christ’s sake, she ordered another person to commit suicide.

That should be a crime, regardless of whether the person agrees with the order, right?

And then it could have affected morale, maybe a maquis would have led objections to her leadership

It must be a breaking of starfleet regs for sure, as bad as Capt Ransom

Yeah, and like that awful deal with the Borg that forced millions of innocents into assimilation, this offense, which should have forced court martial proceedings when she returned to Starfleet get’s swept under the rug due to the publicity and hero-worship treatment she got for bringing the VOY back…and they even promoted her to Admiral after these major crimes — crimes which also violated the Prime Directive.

Too much a cult of personality with her and too little accountability for her seat-of-the-pants bad decisions while far away from Starfleet supervision.

I think a really cool way to have ended VOY would have been a two-parter, “The Court Martial of Captain Janeway,” where they reviewed these and other questionble decisions during her time in the Delta Quadrant. And they could have given her some accountability, while still having a happy ending — the result should have been denial of the proposed promotion to Admiral, but allowing her to stay as Captain with a chance of getting the VOY back.

She literally tortured a Starfleet officer by putting him in a room where aliens were going to attack him. Even in universe Chakotay said she WAY crossed the line. She should not have been promoted when she got home, she should have been thrown in jail and the key thrown away. And this is the person that had th F***** nerve to say Kirk and Spock and Sulu would be kicked out of 24th century Starfleet because now they are too high minded. Screw her.

again the ‘re set’ means that there is no change in how chakotay gets on with his captain in future

Good point — that had not occurred to me.

I definitely agree she did cross the line when she was going to have one of Ransom’s men eaten by the little alien guy. But Sisko also poisoned a planet that had civilians on it because he was super pissed too. Just saying bro!

For the record I’m not condoning either one… but I can understand it. 😉.

I think she said Kirk would’ve been drummed out because he disobeyed orders but I think he saved the galaxy too many times to get the boot. But they all disobeyed orders, minus Janeway for obvious reasons, and stayed so who really knows?

Ultimately, I don’t think Janeway did anything “wrong”; you can’t sacrifice two lives for the sake of one life, which has always been the burden of a “command decision”. In fact, in the TNG episode “Thine Own Self”, Troi was tested on this very principle: could she, in could conscious, sacrifice one life for the sake of others? My only problem with this episode is the way Janeway and the others dealt with the issue, and, really, didn’t find any other options that could have saved Tuvix existence, whether it be cloning (via the transporters or by some other means), or create a holographic entity that could be used as a stop-gap measure, until a body could be created. There was a host of possibilities that could satisfy all parties, and, unfortunately, few were. Ultimately, I get what the producers of VOY wanted to do, but, as a “Trekkie” of many decades, I am disappointed with this episode narratively speaking.

GET A LIFE!

The Cast of Star Trek Voyager – Then and Now

By: Author Brad Burnie

Posted on Published: January 30, 2022  - Last updated: September 22, 2022

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The Star Trek Voyager is the fifth series and fourth sequel to Star Trek: The Original Series. It originally aired on the then United Paramount Network (UPN) from January 1995 to May 2001 and lasted 172 episodes spanning over seven seasons.

The pilot episode, Caretaker , was actually shot in September 1994, meaning the cast had worked together on set for more than six years, making them almost family.

The series was a big hit as it introduced new ideas to the franchise, like the first female captain of a Starfleet vessel, new alien species, and the use of CGI technology for the first time on Star Trek, which rendered better space shots.

The show’s success meant the cast also became household names, and it was a defining period in their careers.

Because we (Trekkies) were stranded right there with them in the uncharted Delta Quadrant, 70,000 light-years away from the Earth, we became invested in their lives as well. We were together for an entire seven seasons, trying to find the way back to Earth through seemingly insurmountable obstacles. Therefore, it should not be a surprise that we have been keeping up with them beyond Star Trek: Voyager. Here is what they have been up to.

Katherine Kiernan Maria Mulgrew (Kate Mulgrew)

She played Captain Kathryn Janeway, Commander of the USS Voyager . The first-ever female captain to be featured in a Star Trek series and the lead character.

During the Voyager filming, Kate was also featured in animations like Aladdin as Queen Hippsodeth’s voice and Gargoyles as Titania. She has been cast in several other animations since Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters , Infinity Train, and other cameo roles. She has also done voice-overs for a host of video games, Star Trek-related and otherwise.

Her television presence is also flourishing as she has been cast in some highly-rated shows like Mr. Mercedes , Warehouse 13 , Mercy , The Black Donnelly’s, and Orange Is the New Black . She won the Critics’ Choice Television Award for the Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series in 2014 for her role as Galina Red Reznikov in Orange Is the New Black . The same year she was nominated for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series in the Primetime Emmy Awards for the same role.

Since then, she has also featured in a number of movies, documentaries, short films, and Broadway productions.

She is still involved in expanding the Star Trek franchise and has been cast in the upcoming animated series Star Trek: Prodigy, currently in production for Nickelodeon.

Personal Life

Kate was finalizing her divorce with Robert Egan, with whom they had two children when the Voyager was first airing in 1995. She was still searching for the daughter she had placed for adoption earlier in her career as a single terrified actor. She got married to Tim Hagan in 1996, but they later divorced in 2014. She reconnected with the daughter she had placed for adoption in 2001.

Robert Adame Beltran

He played Commander Chakotay, the Native American First Officer of the USS Voyager. He reluctantly assumes the position after his crew of Maquis rebels is forced to join forces with the USS Voyager when they are both stranded in the Delta Quadrant.

Robert won the Outstanding Actor in a Television Series at the Nosotros Golden Eagle Awards in 1997 after getting nominated for Outstanding Television Series Actor in a Crossover Role at the NCLR Bravo Awards the previous year.

Beltran would get nominated again in 1998 and 1999 at the same awards, now renamed the American Latino Media Arts (ALMA) Awards for the same role in the category Outstanding Individual Performance in a Television Series in a Crossover Role.

Playing Chakotay remains his most celebrated television presence, although he has made cameo appearances in many TV series, films, and documentaries since then. He has appeared in a few movies and is also featured in Star Trek Voyager’s game : Elite Force .

Robert lives in Los Angeles and is a big supporter of the National Down Syndrome Society. He even hosts an annual Galaxy Ball as a fundraiser for the Down’s Syndrome Association of Los Angeles to connect those afflicted with the condition and their families with resources and support systems. He says he is driven to do something because his youngest sibling has down syndrome and knows what the children go through without professional help.

Roxann Dawson

She was Lieutenant B’Elanna Torres, the Klingon-Human hybrid who got to be Chief Engineer of the USS Voyager after the unplanned merger of Voyager and Val Jean crews in the Delta Quadrant. She remains relevant throughout the series for many reasons, the least of which is her long courtship with Lieutenant Junior Grade Thomas Eugene Paris, which leads to marriage and their daughter Miral Paris’s birth.

Dawson got to direct two episodes of the Star Trek: Voyager while still a part of the cast: Riddles and Workforce , then went on to direct 10 episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise. This means she was already a director and an actor while shooting the Voyager.

She won an ALMA Award in 2001 for Outstanding Achievement in a Television Series for her role in the Star Trek Voyager after being consistently nominated in different categories in 1996, 1998, 1999, and 2000. She was also involved in other award-winning during this period, like the Foto Novelas, which took ALMA Awards in 1998 for Outstanding Latino Casts.

She has since focused on directing several episodes from a host of TV shows, documentaries, and films under her belt. In 2008 she was nominated in 3 separate awards, the ALMA, Hugo, and NAACP Image Awards, for her directed episodes in Heroes.

Dawson has two adopted daughters, Emma and Mia (who was adopted from China), from her marriage to Casey Biggs before the voyage. She is currently married to casting director Eric Dawson.

Robert Duncan McNeill

He played Thomas Eugene Paris, a disgraced pilot from a renowned family who gets a chance to redeem himself when assigned to spy on the Marquis rebels. He will proceed to be the helm engineer and supporting medic of the USS Voyager.

After the Star Trek Voyager, he has featured in the Voyager video game ‘Elite Force ’ and Star Trek Online. He has also acted in a couple of episodes in TV shows. He focused on directing and producing and has quite a number of films and TV shows to his credit. Most notable is the series Chuck which he was involved in all 73 episodes.

Robert lives in Los Angeles and has three children, Taylor McNeill, Kyle McNeill, and Carter Jay McNeill.

Brad Burnie is the founder of Starships.com. He loves all video game genres. In his spare time, he loves reading, watching movies, and gaming

Casting Star Trek: Voyager Reboot

What might Star Trek: Voyager look like today?

Following on from our Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine fantasy castings, we here have decided that the next Star Trek series we'd like to have a bit of fun with is Star Trek: Voyager! Voyager was a pioneering iteration of Star Trek, with Kate Mulgrew in the lead as the fearless Captain Janeway. There was a great variety in the rest of the crew, leading to one of the most diverse casts in Star Trek history.

That is a spirit that we very much want to retain. Now, this is obviously simply a fun 'what if?' type of scenario. Although we won't be casting anyone who has shuffled off this mortal coil, we will also not be hindering ourselves with such silly considerations as, you know, budgets!

We have scoured the casting pages for those who we think would actually bring something fresh and exciting to these roles, while also keeping the spirit of the original in place. With that, here is our list of the perfect actors for a modern day Star Trek: Voyager reboot.

12. Seska - Noomi Rapace

Seska is of course the turncoat Cardassian infiltrator, assigned to spy on Chakotay's Maquis cell. Once she finds herself flung across the galaxy, she quickly reveals herself and escapes to work with Voyager's enemies.

Knowing that she is a spy does nothing to affect the rewatch, and Martha Hackett did a fantastic job of bringing the shady character to life. To capture this fully, the new actor needs to be able to switch from deeply trustworthy to out and out villain on a whim.

Noomi Rapace of course burst onto screens in the Swedish versions of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo series. Since then, she has appeared in many other roles, with Prometheus being one of her biggest to date.

She is able to play both vulnerable and terrifying, displaying a power that suggests one should absolutely not mess with her.

She would be a fantastic addition to this fantasy reboot!

Writer. Reader. Host. I'm Seán, I live in Ireland and I'm the poster child for dangerous obsessions with Star Trek. Check me out on Twitter @seanferrick

Why Star Trek: Voyager's Ending Felt Abrupt To Fans (& Why It Could Never Get A Reboot)

Reboots, revisions, and new adaptations are all the rage these days when it comes to entertainment, though one "Star Trek" property might be resistant to such efforts.  "Star Trek: Voyager" focuses on the titular ship as it is cast far away from anything any of the crew might recognize, and even traveling at speeds far greater than even light itself, it would have normally taken the crew decades to get home. Sent far away to the Delta Quadrant, the crewmembers of Voyager are essentially on their own as they try to survive. 

However, due to the nature of "Star Trek: Voyager," which eventually sees the crew make it home to the Alpha Quadrant, it would be almost impossible to create a continuation of the story because the major focus of the show has already been completed. In addition, many fans felt like the show came to a jarring conclusion, and even though "Voyager" occupies a special place in "Star Trek" lore, it is unlikely the ending to "Star Trek: Voyager" will ever change or be envisioned through the lens of a reboot.

Over on Reddit, a conversation was started by u/TEmpTom when they asked why the ending for "Star Trek: Voyager" felt so abrupt. They specifically mentioned that "Star Trek: Voyager" wasn't canceled, and that the writers of the show knew when they had to wrap everything up. This question caused many Trekkies to respond in turn, like one Reddit user who wrote, "Because of Voyager's episodic nature. They wanted to stick to the TNG-style arcless storytelling rather than the sweeping DS9 plot." They added, "As such, no matter how Voyager was resolved, it was going to be abrupt."

Some fans were more concerned with the journey of Star Trek: Voyager and not the destination

Others also had their own thoughts as to the rapid conclusion of "Star Trek: Voyager," which sees the Voyager starship quickly return home after a double cross and some time-travel shenanigans. u/marcuzt  believed that "Star Trek: Voyager" should have ended with the USS Voyager still stuck far out in space. They added that the true ending for "Star Trek: Voyager" could then be told with a movie instead of the hasty conclusion fans received instead. u/Coolsbreeze  really enjoyed "Star Trek: Voyager" before the final episode, and they wrote, "I always thought Voyager was well written but the last episode was way too rushed."

u/NoisyPiper27  envisioned a completely different ending that would have required a serious rework of the entire show. They elaborated, "I think it would have been neat, if instead of Scorpion (or in addition to it), we got a time jump partway through the show, with aged original crewmembers and the children/new additions over the years picking up where they left off." The user further suggested that the show should do a time skip of 20 to 30 years to avoid having to use the time travel trope and to underscore that it was a tough journey home. With these comments in mind, it definitely seems like many fans wanted "Star Trek: Voyager" to truly take its time returning back to Earth, with some fans even okay with an ending that would have still seen the Voyager long from home. At least then a continuation may have been possible! 

The writers of Star Trek: Voyager struggled with coming up with the show's conclusion

In the 2020 book "Star Trek: Voyager — A Celebration" (via the Hollywood Reporter ), Ken Biller, who wrote for the show, explained that he and his fellow writer Brannon Braga had some issues with crafting the ending. Biller explained, "We were really struggling with it. Is the end of the show just that they get home? That's a bit of an anticlimax. Did we want some people to die?" Considering that the entire fulcrum of "Star Trek: Voyager" hinged on the crew doing their very best to make it home, one might have assumed that doing so would be the nice way to end up the series, but doing so rapidly certainly seemed to be a little jarring to fans.

In other words, a continuation of "Star Trek: Voyager" would be a hard sell since the final episode sees the spaceship utilize a Borg Transwarp Hub to quickly arrive back home, while also at the same time dealing a fatal blow to the Borg Collective. Even a reboot wouldn't really do "Star Trek: Voyager" any justice since stranding another Federation ship deep into the Delta Quadrant would just be retreading beloved story beats. Still, for the final episode of "Star Trek: Voyager" to contain both time-travel and a technological MacGuffin that reduced the decades-long trip into a simple subspace jump might have been a little too abrupt for some fans, and it is unlikely that "Star Trek: Voyager" will ever continue or be rebooted. 

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Voyager Reboot Casting

Discussion in ' Star Trek: Voyager ' started by JHoffman555 , Jun 29, 2010 .

JHoffman555 Ensign Red Shirt

Hiya - I've put together an imagined cast for a potential Voyager reboot. Take a look & lemme know where I screwed up: http://www.ugo.com/movies/j-j-abrams-reboots-star-trek-voyager  

DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

It would help if I knew who some of those people were... You just love casting Mark Strong in every non-human outsider role, don't you? I can understand that... But what's up with the Timberlake love? Temeura Morrison would probably be lot more badass as Chakotay, but Gemma Atterton is way too young for Janeway. Though I guess it could work if you imagine her 20 years older, with Morrison and others not getting any older. (Imaginary castings allow that, after all.)  

Udat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

Can we have a sexier Neelix, Harry, Tuvok and Chakotay.  

^ Words Neelix and "sexy" don't go together.  

Well in the re-booted Neelix is hot!!!  

Sexy Neelix. I'm down with that!  

See I`ve sold JHoffman on the idea, now who will pay for the new series?  

WHF Captain Captain

Klea Scott would be my choice for Janeway. Most will remember her from the TV series Millennium , but what sells me on her for this role is the CBC series Intelligence . On this series she had this attitude that if you crossed her you were fucked. She was also able to portray an inner uncertainty about her decisions. She is an actor you can believe is capable of commanding a starship and at 42 she is in the right age range for a captain. There was another actor on that show, Matt Frewer, who played her second in command. They didn't trust each other and the Frewer character would try and undermine the Scott Character because he was trying to get her job. If one was willing to ditch Chakotay's spiritualism he would be a good choice for that role. Frewer also does arrogance and comedy well so he would also work as the EMH.  

stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

Baldness is irrelevant. Steve Carell is the EMH. I don't think Justin Timberlake will want to talk about breaking into Rain's bedroom, though. Even in fantasy casting.  

MeanJoePhaser Admiral

Rena Owen as Seska Seska: "Chakotay, give me the keys to the shuttlecraft so me and the kids can go see Neelix." Temeura Chakotay: "Shut-up woman, you already took all my money!" Also an Aaron Eckhart or George Clooney cameo as Commander Cavitt, the doomed first officer of Voyager.  

WeAreTheBorg Vice Admiral Admiral

Edward James Olmos as Janeway, Michael Hogan as Seven  

Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

I'll say no thanks simply for the fact that you have Katee Sackhoff on this list. After watching her on 24 this year, I wish I could erase her from my memory.  

Enterprise1981 Vice Admiral Admiral

Justin Timberlake as Tom Paris and Ellen Page as B'Elana Torres? I don't think so, Tim. But I'm cool with Sackhoff as Seven of Nine.  

Sackhoff for anything is just wrong. Ellen Page for Seven of Nine. Or Amanda Seyfried. Josh Hartnett for Tom Paris, the right blend of pretty and bland. But they could tweak the part and get a good actor? Michelle Rodriguez for Torres is obvious, but sometimes not doing the obvious is just being perverse instead of original, right? Either maturation chambers are completely ridiculous or Seven of Nine was cast too young. Clea Duval, for more age appropriate and edgy. Angela Bassett for Janeway, and Hugh Laurie for Tuvok. Because. Wes Studi for Chakotay. Sean Astin for Neelix. The situation for young Asian male actors is still horrible. The only name actor who is age appropriate is John Cho.  

An example of why I think Klea Scott would work as Janeway: [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkeD3n8sTkg[/yt]  

Cornholio Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

JHoffman555 said: ↑ Hiya - I've put together an imagined cast for a potential Voyager reboot. Take a look & lemme know where I screwed up: http://www.ugo.com/movies/j-j-abrams-reboots-star-trek-voyager Click to expand...

kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

jacob6418 said: ↑ In 2009 J.J. Abrams rocked the Star Trek world by rebooting the Original Series with a younger cast and a non-canon origin story. Now it's The Next Generation's turn! Click to expand...

Adm_Hawthorne Admiral Admiral

kimc said: ↑ jacob6418 said: ↑ In 2009 J.J. Abrams rocked the Star Trek world by rebooting the Original Series with a younger cast and a non-canon origin story. Now it's The Next Generation's turn! Click to expand...

Ensign Johnson Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

I'd like to see a film with the original Voyager cast, but with the new movies now I can't see it happening. Maybe Admiral Janeway could turn up in the next film because of some sort of anomaly.  

Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

My two cents: Janeway: Gina Torres (Firefly) Chakotay: Graham Greene (Dances With Wolves)  

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‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Reunion 2025 — Is It Happening?

• By Bryan Murray
• Last updated on April 13, 2024

Related News

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Rumors of a Star Trek: Voyager reunion had the internet in a frenzy on Friday (April 12) as reports claimed that UPN confirmed a revival of the popular sitcom for 2025.

UPDATE 13/04/2024 : This story seems to be false. (read more)

Can you believe it's been 29 years since Star Trek: Voyager first aired?! (29 years, 2 months, 28 days to be exact.)

Why in the world did Star Trek: Voyager end?

When Star Trek: Voyager came to an end after 7 years in May 2001, million viewers tuned in to say goodbye to Kathryn Janeway ( Kate Mulgrew ). And since then, they have been itching for a reunion.

Would a Star Trek: Voyager reunion disappoint people?

Star Trek: Voyager aired from 1995-2001 and is considered one of the most influential TV shows ever on pop culture . Although no original episodes have been shot since, it has remained a regular feature on many station's schedules. But Mulgrew said she's not sure if Star Trek: Voyager would work today. “I don't want to see old Kathryn Janeway,” she told a journalist ( Mulgrew turned 68 in April ). “Everyone’s going to have different vision of what the character is like, so to have that materialize is going to disappoint most people,” she added.

Still hoping for a Star Trek: Voyager movie?

In a recent interview, Kate Mulgrew said she can't imagine a Star Trek: Voyager reunion hitting the big screen. “I'd rather people go, ‘Oh, please! Please!’ than ‘I can't believe you did that. It was horrible.’”

Co-star Jeri Ryan (who played Seven of Nine between 1997 and 2001) has also previously explained, “It would be terrible to do something and have it not be good,” . “It was so terrific ... If we did a Star Trek: Voyager movie and it sucked, then it would, you know, blemish it.”

What about a Star Trek: Voyager reboot?

Recasting Star Trek: Voyager for a modern reboot. Hollywood is known for remaking remakes of films or tv series and the studios might think it would be great to bring the story back with a new set of characters.

Be it in the form of a Star Trek: Voyager reunion, a Star Trek: Voyager movie, or a Star Trek: Voyager reboot, if you had to start filming today, who would you cast in what role?

© 2024 MediaMass All rights reserved. Do not reproduce (even with permission).

Star Trek: Voyager's “Reset Button” Killed A Great Doctor Story, Says Robert Picardo

• The Doctor's memory loss storyline was cut short due to Star Trek: Voyager's episodic format, disappointing Robert Picardo.
• Voyager's fear of serialization hindered character development despite fans wanting more continuity.
• The Doctor's memory loss had potential for in-depth exploration, but Voyager's use of the "reset button" limited storytelling.

Star Trek: Voyager killed one of the Doctor's (Robert Picardo) best storylines in season 3, causing Picardo to express his disappointment that it wasn't continued. The USS Voyager's EMH was one of the most popular characters in Star Trek: Voyager 's cast , thanks mainly to his unique origins and diverse character arc . As a hologram who gained sentience during the show's run, the Doctor filled a franchise niche previously held by other popular characters like Data from Star Trek: The Next Generation .

Many of the Doctor's storylines on Voyager revolved around him gaining humanity. However, a season 3 episode featured the character losing some of his humanity because of a malfunction in his program. Season 3, episode 4, "The Swarm" was focused on the Doctor as Kes (Jennifer Lien) and B'Elanna Torres (Roxann Dawson) worked to save his program after it began to degrade. Ultimately, the Doctor ended up losing a large portion of his memory at the end of the episode , a consequence that should have had implications for his character over the rest of the season.

How To Watch All Star Trek TV Shows In Timeline Order

Robert picardo says voyager’s “reset button” killed one of the doctor’s best season 3 storylines, the doctor missed out thanks to the reset button.

Unfortunately, aside from a brief reference to the Doctor's memory loss in a future episode, the events of "The Swarm" were never mentioned again , cutting off the possibility of Voyager exploring how the Doctor recovered from his severe memory loss. This was largely thanks to Voyager 's use of episodic storytelling and contained arcs, something that the show was infamous for during its run. Robert Picardo was particularly disappointed that the Doctor's ordeal during "The Swarm" wasn't explored further though, expressing his frustration to The Official Star Trek: Voyager Magazine sometime after the episode's release. Read Picardo's full quote below:

"There's a tremendous desire among the makers of our show to keep things self-contained. They don't like to serialize that much and, if they do, it's only as a two-parter. They tend not to carry arcs through a number of episodes. So, we really had to throw out the whole notion of The Doctor losing all of his memory, being rebooted and having to redevelop his personality. We couldn't really follow through with that in a way that I would have hoped we would. It was still a strong episode and an acting challenge for me, but I do regret somewhat that we couldn't have carried the aftermath of that experience through a number of episodes."

Given how large the scope of the Doctor's memory loss was, it's surprising that Voyager didn't carry on with the story despite their aversion to serialization. Having the Doctor lose so much of his emerging humanity just as he was starting to become sentient was devastating , but was also a huge piece of character development to drop the thread of. "The Swarm" was also a poignant allegory for sufferers of Alzheimer's Disease, providing the " acting challenge " Picardo mentioned. Such an important episode should have caused Voyager to disregard their fear of serialized storytelling and carry the story throughout the season.

Why Star Trek: Voyager Was So Afraid Of Serialized Storytelling

Voyager avoided serialization to its detriment.

Despite this, Voyager stuck to its fear of serialization, likely because another Star Trek series was having mixed results with it. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine , Voyager 's sister show , is often credited as the first Star Trek series to truly incorporate serialized storytelling. While this has made the show more popular in hindsight, DS9 's ratings at the time were not as high as Star Trek: TNG , a show that had mainly found success in episodic storytelling. Voyager 's creative team may have felt that the show needed to return to the traditional model to succeed.

However, examples like what happened with the Doctor's story in "The Swarm" show that Voyager was wrong about how serialization would have been received by audiences. While the show did incorporate more serialized character arcs later on, it's often derided for its use of the "reset button" and the way that hurt certain episodes , including "The Swarm." If Star Trek: Voyager had found a way to strike a balance between episodic and serialized television, it might have achieved something only now being pulled off by a show like Star Trek: Strange New Worlds .

Source: The Official Star Trek: Voyager Magazine , issue 18

Star Trek: Voyager is available to stream on Paramount+.

Star Trek: Voyager

The fifth entry in the Star Trek franchise, Star Trek: Voyager, is a sci-fi series that sees the crew of the USS Voyager on a long journey back to their home after finding themselves stranded at the far ends of the Milky Way Galaxy. Led by Captain Kathryn Janeway, the series follows the crew as they embark through truly uncharted areas of space, with new species, friends, foes, and mysteries to solve as they wrestle with the politics of a crew in a situation they've never faced before. 

Cast Jennifer Lien, Garrett Wang, Tim Russ, Robert Duncan McNeill, Roxann Dawson, Robert Beltran, Kate Mulgrew, Jeri Ryan, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo

Release Date May 23, 1995

Genres Sci-Fi, Adventure

Network UPN

Streaming Service(s) Paramount+

Franchise(s) Star Trek

Writers Kenneth Biller, Jeri Taylor, Michael Piller, Brannon Braga

Showrunner Kenneth Biller, Jeri Taylor, Michael Piller, Brannon Braga

Rating TV-PG

Where To Watch Paramount+

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Paramount May Be Planning A Strange Star Trek: Voyager Spinoff

I’ve always had a soft spot for  Star Trek: Voyager . Sure, it wasn’t as iconic as  The Next Generation  or as smart as  Deep Space Nine , but it made up for that by being  extremely  weird.  Voyager  episodes included an Irish village in the holodeck becoming sentient and attempting to burn the crew at the stake for being witches, their holographic doctor’s daydreams attracting the attention of an alien race, an entire civilization evolving in real-time before the crew’s eyes and… well,  whatever was going on in “Threshold.”

Now it seems that Paramount may be considering a Voyager spin-off show and I can guarantee it’s not what you think it is. In various episodes Lt. Tom Paris used the holodeck to live out 1930s B-movie style sci-fi adventures as the swashbuckling Captain Proton. Actor Robert Duncan McNeill obviously enjoyed making these episodes and, during an interview on the Primitive Culture podcast, revealed that he’s pitched reviving Captain Proton as a radio drama podcast.

These adventures (presumably taking place on the holodeck during the Voyager’s trip home) would feature various members of the old cast in different roles. It’s a fun idea, especially as doing it as an audio play means it’s easy to imagine the characters in their prime, expand the scope of the story and keep budgets down.

McNeill confirmed he’s been in contact with Alex Kurtzman’s company about the idea and Kate Mulgrew – Captain Janeway herself – has said she’d definitely appear. She described her role as ‘Queen Arachnia’ on Captain Proton as the “greatest fun” she’d had in her seven-year tenure on Voyager , saying “I never say never, and never say die”.

Let’s hope we hear some confirmation of this soon. ViacomCBS have been working with iHeartRadio to expand their podcast offerings and this would be a great fit.

Star Trek Origin Movie Confirmed by Paramount, Logline Revealed

Paramount Pictures confirms a new Star Trek movie soon to release separate from the long-gestating Star Trek 4.

Star Trek has been dormant on the big screen for a long time, but the franchise is looking to get back into theaters within the next two years. At CinemaCon, Paramount unveiled its titles for the company's movie slate for 2025 and 2026, officially confirming plans to release a major Star Trek film during this time.

Previously, it was reported that a new Star Trek film was in development that's separate from the planned sequel to 2016's Star Trek Beyond . The film slate reveal has now officially confirmed that the project is in development, and as it's currently untitled, it's listed as Untitled Star Trek Origin Story . Also confirmed to be on board are director Toby Haynes ( Star Wars: Andor ), writer Seth Grahame-Smith ( Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter ), and producer J.J. Abrams .

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds Gets Renewed, Lower Decks to End With Season 5

A brief logline was provided by Paramount, describing the project as " an origin story that takes place decades before the original 2009 Star Trek film ." This is also confirmation that the prequel is connected to the 2009 movie along with its two sequels. Given the timeline, it can be expected to follow an all-new cast of characters, though there are likely to be references that connect the film to the other Trek movies.

Star Trek 4 Is Still in the Works

Meanwhile, Star Trek 4 remains in active development, even after multiple false starts over the past several years in getting made. In March, it was reported that the project was getting back on track with The Flight Attendant co-creator Steve Yockey signing on to write a new screenplay for the movie. Franchise star Zoe Saldana recently addressed the project's slow development, sharing how she still had hope the movie would see its eventual release.

What Is Star Trek: Discovery's Spore Drive and How Does It Work?

"I still have hope. I had a wonderful experience through and through and through the three times that I was a part of that team,” she said on The Playlist's podcast . “I know that they’re always trying to sort of aim to wrangle everybody together, but I also know that Paramount is working on a new sort of fresh take on Star Trek, which I think is such a wonderful franchise that should live for a very long time, whether or not us as the original remake cast can come back. I don’t know, but I certainly hope so."

The untitled Star Trek prequel is expected to be released in 2025 or 2026, but a release date hasn't yet been set.

Source: Paramount

The Star Trek universe encompasses multiple series, each offering a unique lens through which to experience the wonders and perils of space travel. Join Captain Kirk and his crew on the Original Series' voyages of discovery, encounter the utopian vision of the Federation in The Next Generation, or delve into the darker corners of galactic politics in Deep Space Nine. No matter your preference, there's a Star Trek adventure waiting to ignite your imagination.

A Star Trek Origin Movie Is Coming in 2025 From 'Andor' and 'Doctor Who' Director Toby Haynes

'Star Trek' (2009) director J.J. Abrams is attached to produce.

The Big Picture

• A new Star Trek prequel film, an "origin story", is in development, at Paramount.
• The Star Trek history before Kirk's missions on the Enterprise is largely unwritten, leaving room for creativity with the new film.
• Director Toby Haynes, known for Andor , is working on the film alongside writer Seth Grahame-Smith; a 2025 release window was announced at CinemaCon.

Star Trek may finally be coming back to the big screen. A prequel to the 2009 J.J. Abrams reboot of the franchise is in the works from director Toby Haynes . The news comes from Paramount's presentation at CinemaCon today, as reported by Collider's Steve Weintraub and Britta DeVore . With Haynes, who recently helmed six episodes of the acclaimed Star Wars series Andor , at the rudder, the film will be written by Seth Grahame-Smith .

So far, other details on the new film are scarce, but it will reportedly be an "origin story", taking place decades before the 2009 Star Trek film, which took place in 2255. That likely means that it will not feature the cast from the 2009 reboot, which has so far been difficult for Paramount to wrangle together for a fourth film, despite numerous attempts to do so . That doesn't necessarily mean that a fourth movie isn't happening: back in March, Paramount hired The Flight Attendant scribe Steve Yockey to pen a new script for the film. For their part, the cast is game as well, with Zoe Saldaña recently stating her willingness to return for a fourth mission on the USS Enterprise .

What Happened Decades Before Kirk's First Missions on the Enterprise?

The history of the Star Trek universe prior to the celebrated voyages of the Enterprise is largely unwritten. The first starship Enterprise 's adventures in the 22nd century were chronicled on the UPN prequel series Star Trek: Enterprise . That series ended with the founding of the United Federation of Planets in 2161, which leaves almost a century of mostly unexplored history between that and the history now being charted on Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (and the first two seasons of mothership show Star Trek: Discovery ).

At some point, the nascent Federation faces a devastating war against the Romulan Star Empire , while also engaged in a Cold War with the Klingons. The USS Enterprise will eventually be launched in the 23rd century, under the captaincy of Robert April, who has been briefly glimpsed on Star Trek: The Animated Series and Strange New Worlds , before being handed off to Christopher Pike . Apart from that, however, Haynes and Graeme-Smith have a near-blank canvas upon which to make their mark.

In addition to Andor , Haynes has also helmed episodes of Doctor Who , Sherlock , and Black Mirror ; his work on the latter series includes the episode " USS Callister ," a loving pastiche of Star Trek . Graeme-Smith wrote the novels Pride & Prejudice & Zombies and Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter ; he worked on the story for the upcoming horror comedy sequel Beetlejuice Beetlejuice .

A new Star Trek prequel film is in development; no date has yet been set beyond a 2025 release window . Stay tuned to Collider for future updates.

A Star Trek origin story movie is officially on the way from Andor and Black Mirror director

It's set to take place decades before 2009's Star Trek

Paramount has officially announced a new Star Trek movie – but it's not Star Trek 4.

The Untitled Star Trek Origin Story was unveiled at CinemaCon, with J.J. Abrams set to produce (H/T The Wrap ). The film will take place decades before 2009's Star Trek, with Andor's Toby Haynes set to direct and Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter author Seth Grahame-Smith set to pen the script. Plot details have yet to be released. Deadline first announced the film earlier this year.

Haynes directed the popular Black Mirror episode U.S.S Callister, which acts as a Star Trek parody. Black Mirror season 7 will feature a sequel to U.S.S Callister , though it has not yet been announced who will direct.

Paramount also stated that the origin pic would begin production later this year to make it in time for a 2025 theatrical release. Star Trek 4, the sequel to Abrams' 2009 flick, is still in development. WandaVision's Matt Shakman was previously attached to direct, but  left the project  in August 2022  around the same time he was announced as the new Fantastic Four director. Last month, Variety reported that Sucker Punch and Supernatural writer Steve Yockey would pen the fourth Star Trek film, which intends to bring back Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, and the rest of the cast.

The Untitled Star Trek Origin Story does not yet have a release date. For more, check out our list of the most exciting upcoming movies in 2024 and beyond, or, skip right to the good stuff with our list of movie release dates .

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Lauren Milici is a Senior Entertainment Writer for GamesRadar+ currently based in the Midwest. She previously reported on breaking news for The Independent's Indy100 and created TV and film listicles for Ranker. Her work has been published in Fandom, Nerdist, Paste Magazine, Vulture, PopSugar, Fangoria, and more.

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Star Trek Film Series (Reboot)

• Movies or TV
• IMDb Rating
• In Theaters
• Release Year

1. Star Trek (2009)

PG-13 | 127 min | Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi

The brash James T. Kirk tries to live up to his father's legacy with Mr. Spock keeping him in check as a vengeful Romulan from the future creates black holes to destroy the Federation one planet at a time.

Director: J.J. Abrams | Stars: Chris Pine , Zachary Quinto , Simon Pegg , Leonard Nimoy

Votes: 619,839 | Gross: $257.73M

2. Star Trek Into Darkness (2013)

PG-13 | 132 min | Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi

After the crew of the Enterprise find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization, Captain Kirk leads a manhunt to a war-zone world to capture a one-man weapon of mass destruction.

Director: J.J. Abrams | Stars: Chris Pine , Zachary Quinto , Zoe Saldana , Benedict Cumberbatch

Votes: 496,748 | Gross: $228.78M

3. Star Trek Beyond (2016)

PG-13 | 122 min | Action, Adventure, Sci-Fi

The crew of the USS Enterprise explores the furthest reaches of uncharted space, where they encounter a new ruthless enemy, who puts them, and everything the Federation stands for, to the test.

Director: Justin Lin | Stars: Chris Pine , Zachary Quinto , Karl Urban , Zoe Saldana

Votes: 258,218 | Gross: $158.85M

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Star Trek Prequel Movie In The Works With Star Wars Director

Toby Haynes, who directed episodes of Black Mirror, Doctor Who, and Andor, is lined up to make a Star Trek movie.

By Eddie Makuch on April 11, 2024 at 12:06PM PDT

A Star Trek prequel movie is in the works with Star Wars director Toby Haynes attached to direct, Paramount announced during CinemaCon. This has been rumored since January , and now it's confirmed. The movie is set for release sometime in 2025.

Haynes previously directed episodes of Doctor Who, Black Mirror, Sherlock, and the Star Wars series Andor. Collider reported on these details from CinemaCon.

Seth Grahame-Smith, who wrote The Lego Batman Movie, is writing the untitled Star Trek film. Haynes has never directed or written a Star Trek movie, but he directed Black Mirror's Star Trek-inspired USS Callister episode.

The film is said to be an "origin story" that will take place prior to the events of 2009's Star Trek, which took place in 2255 and was itself an origin story. This likely means it will feature a different cast. The stars of the latest series, including Chris Pine, Karl Urban, Zachary Quinto, and Zoe Saldana, have been rumored to be coming back for a fourth film in their series, but it hasn't happened yet.

2016's Star Trek Beyond is the latest entry in the main Star Trek movie series, but the franchise has lived long and prospered on streaming with the TV shows Picard and Strange New Worlds.

The 2009 Star Trek reboot and its 2013 sequel Into Darkness were directed by JJ Abrams, before he handed off directing duties to Justin Lin for Star Trek Beyond. The three movies collectively earned around $1.2 billion at the global box office.

In addition to Pine, Saldana, and Quinto, the latest Star Trek movie series featured John Cho as Sulu and Anton Yelchin as Chekov. Yelchin tragically died in 2016 at the age of 27 after a motor vehicle accident in his driveway.

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Screen Rant

Star trek: discovery season 5 returning cast & new character guide.

As Burnham seeks the universe's greatest treasure in Star Trek: Discovery season 5, she'll need help from a host of new and returning characters.

• Discovery season 5 follows Burnham on a treasure hunt with new allies and enemies in the 32nd century.
• Captain Saru may get his own command, impacting his role on Discovery.
• Stamets plays a key role with the Spore Drive and the quest for the mysterious treasure.

After a long delay, Captain Michael Burnham (Sonequa Martin-Green) and the crew of the USS Discovery are back, and they'll be joined by some new and returning characters over the course of Star Trek: Discovery season 5's intergalactic treasure hunt. Discovery season 5 picks up some time after the DMA disaster was averted, and it's likely that the impact of that on the show's regulars will be explored as the weeks go by. Tasked by the ever-engimatic Dr. Kovich (David Cronenberg) to retrieve a mysterious item from an 800-year-old Romulan ship, Burnham and the crew of the Discovery are thrown into a quest for a great prize that must not fall into the wrong hands .

With the " greatest treasure in the known universe " on the line, Burnham and the crew will need some allies from the 32nd century Star Trek timeline . As well as her loyal crew, Burnham will again be assisted by Cleveland Booker (David Ajala), the Federation President, Laila Rilak (Chelah Horsdal) and Starfleet Admiral Charles Vance (Oded Fehr) . As the extensive Star Trek: Discovery cast prepare to say goodbye, it looks like they'll get a suitably cinematic and emotional send-off.

When Does Every Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Episode Premiere (& How Many Are There)?

17 sonequa martin-green as captain michael burnham, the uss discovery's legendary captain is at the heart of the action in season 5..

Sonequa Martin-Green returns as Captain Michael Burnham in Star Trek: Discovery season 5. After a breakthrough role as Sasha Williams in The Walking Dead , Sonequa Martin-Green has led Discovery since 2017, and will be bowing out when the show ends this year. Between seasons 4 and 5, Martin-Green appeared in Space Jam: A New Legacy and guest starred as the Green Ghost in Invincible .

Since arriving in the future, Burnham has quickly become the most important captain in Star Trek 's 32nd century , which is presumably why she's been trusted to lead season 5's intergalactic treasure hunt. From the clips and trailers, Burnham will be right in the thick of the action, engaged in gunfights in corridors and surfing on starships. It also looks like Burnham will be forced to reconcile her strained relationship with Cleveland "Book" Booker (David Ajala), after his betrayal in Star Trek: Discovery season 4.

16 Doug Jones as Captain Saru

Will burnham's number one get his own command.

Doug Jones' history-making Saru is also back for Star Trek: Discovery season 5. It's been teased that Saru will be offered the " position of a lifetime " in the season 5 premiere , meaning that he may no longer be Burnham's second-in-command. Burnham and Saru are seen in an exciting adventure on a forest planet in the final Discovery trailer, a mission that is referred to as the pair's " last dance ". The specifics of Saru's new role and how it plays into season 5's larger story remains to be seen. Between Star Trek: Discovery seasons 4 and 5, Doug Jones was seen as Baron Afanas in FX's vampire comedy What We Do in the Shadows .

15 Anthony Rapp as Commander Paul Stamets

Has stamets finally rolled out his revolutionary spore drive.

Anthony Rapp's Paul Stamets looks to play a key role in Star Trek: Discovery season 5, as he's glimpsed holding a " key " to what is presumably tied to the treasure. Stamets will also presumably be dealing with the fallout from Ruon Tarka's theft of the spore drive technology in season 4. Tarka's protoype spore drive was destroyed, drastically setting back the rollout across the whole Starfleet armada. It will be interesting, therefore, to see if Stamets' passion project has finally been adopted by 32nd century Starfleet. Anthony Rapp recently voiced Orpheus in the videogame Stray Gods: The Roleplaying Musical .

Discovery's Spore Drive Is Better Than Star Trek's Traditional Warp

14 wilson cruz as doctor hugh culber, discovery's answer to counselor deanna troi..

13 Reasons Why star Wilson Cruz will reprise the role of Star Trek: Discovery 's medic and counselor, Dr. Hugh Culber. Wilson Cruz teased that Discovery season 5 is a high note , and the trailers reveal that Culber joins Burnham and Book on an away mission, stretching his legs beyond the Discovery. Culber also expanded his skills in Discovery season 4, taking care of the crew's mental health as well as their physical wellbeing. Gene Roddenberry was inspired to create Counselor Deanna Troi (Marina Sirtis) for that very reason, making Culber a successor to the beloved Star Trek: The Next Generation character in season 5.

13 Mary Wiseman as Lieutenant Sylvia Tilly

Tilly is back full-time for discovery's final mission..

Lt. Sylvia Tilly (Mary Wiseman) had a reduced role in Star Trek: Discovery season 4, but is restored to series regular for Disco 's finale. Tilly left the Discovery to become an instructor at Starfleet Academy, presumably setting up Discovery 's upcoming spinoff series. The trailer for Discovery season 5 reveals that Tilly will be part of the ongoing treasure hunt, as she's seen disguised as an alien inside some large alien structure. As one of Discovery 's best-loved characters, it's fitting that Mary Wiseman's Tilly returns for the final outing . It remains to be seen if Tilly's arc in Discovery season 5 will set up the upcoming Starfleet Academy show .

12 David Ajala as Cleveland Booker

Burnham's lover will be seeking her forgiveness when he returns to discovery..

At the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 4, Booker set off to make amends for his potentially catastrophic actions against Species 10-C. Book was ordered to assist the efforts to resettle refugees from the destruction caused by the DMA as recompense for his theft of the experimental spore drive. Booker returns to the USS Discovery in season 5 to help Burnham and the crew track villainous couriers L'ak and Moll. Burnham and Books' relationship faced its biggest challenge in Discovery season 4 , so it will be interesting to see how that impacts one of the most enduring love stories in modern Star Trek .

11 Blu del Barrio as Ensign Adira Tal

Stamets' protégé will join discovery's treasure hunt..

Ensign Adira Tal (Blu del Barrio), Star Trek: Discovery 's young science whizz, will also be returning in season 5. Still working under the tutelage of their mentor and adoptive father figure, Paul Stamets, Adira will aid the Discovery's quest for season 5's treasure. Adira is the first recurring Star Trek character to identify as non-binary, using they/them pronouns . Adira is a strong example of the hugely positive work that Discovery has done to improve LGBTQ+ representation in the Star Trek franchise. Most recently, Blu del Barrio was one of a number of Star Trek actors to lend their voice to the 2023 videogame Starfield .

Other Star Trek actors who appear in Starfield include Tim Russ, Nana Visitor, and Armin Shimerman.

Star Trek's First LGBTQ+ Romance Almost Happened In TNG Season 2

10 tig notaro as commander jett reno, discovery's comedy engineer returns for season 5..

Stand-up comedian Tig Notaro will return as Commander Jett Reno in Star Trek: Discovery season 5 . Reno is a recurring character who made her debut in Discovery season 2, and joined the crew as they traveled into the far future. Reno is the USS Discovery's acerbic engineer, and will have a role to play in the ongoing search for season 5's mysterious treasure. In the trailer, Tig Notaro is seen holding all manner of sci-fi props, suggesting that Reno will have to do some dazzling engineering work on the fly at some point in Star Trek: Discovery season 5.

9 Callum Keith Rennie as Captain Rayner

How does the kellerun captain fit into burnham's treasure hunt.

Battlestar Galactica 's Callum Keith Rennie plays Captain Rayner, one of Star Trek: Discovery season 5's new characters . It's been confirmed that Captain Rayner is a Kellerun , and that he is a wartime leader struggling to readjust to the Federation's time of peace post-Burn. It's also been teased that Rayner has a personal vendetta against the villainous Moll (Eve Harlow) and L'ak (Elias Toufexis). How Rayner's past with Discovery season 5's primary antagonists will interfere with Burnham's quest for the treasure remains to be seen. From The X-Files to The Umbrella Academy, Rennie is a stalwart of genre TV , so his involvement in Star Trek feels long overdue.

8 Eve Harlow as Moll

One half of discovery season 5's villainous double act..

The Night Agent 's Eve Harlow joins Star Trek: Discovery season 5 as Moll, one half of the villainous criminal duo . Harlow is no stranger to sci-fi, having started out in Marvel's Agents of SHIELD , before appearing in The 100 and Next . Moll has been described as a former courier, who is now an intelligent and strategic outlaw. Moll's partnership with L'ak is romantic as well as professional, suggesting that the couple are a dark reflection of Burnham and Book's former partnership in Discovery season 3. Moll is also described as single-minded, and not intimidated by Captain Burnham or the judgment of Starfleet and the Federation.

7 Elias Toufexis as L'ak

The clyde to moll's bonnie..

L'ak isn't the first Star Trek role for The Expanse 's Elias Toufexis . The actor voiced the characters of Galvan and Hadri in Star Trek: Resurgence , and also previously played "Cold" in Star Trek: Discovery season 1. As one of season 5's primary villains, L'ak is a more substantial role for Elias Toufexis than his previous Star Trek characters. L'ak is Moll's fierce protector, who will stop at nothing to ensure that the love of his life is safe. This could make him an unpredictable and incredibly dangerous foe for Captain Burnham and the crew in Discovery season 5.

Star Trek: Discovery's New Season 5 Villains & Starfleet Officer Explained By Showrunner

6 tara rosling as president t'rina of ni'var, will saru and t'rina get their happy ending in discovery season 5.

President T'Rina (Tara Rosling) and Saru's relationship will develop further in Star Trek: Discovery season 5 . Now the president of the unified Vulcan and Romulan home world of Ni'Var, it's unclear how big a part the wider Federation government will play in season 5's treasure hunt and its wider ramifications. Speculation around Saru's new role in Discovery suggest that he may be taking on a diplomatic role, which will bring him closer to T'Rina on a professional level. Working so closely professionally could have a negative impact on Saru and T'Rina's romance in Discovery season 5, suggesting some interesting material for Tara Rosling to perform.

5 Oded Fehr as Admiral Charles Vance

The starfleet admiral will oversee burnham's final mission..

The Mummy star Oded Fehr returns as Admiral Charles Vance in Star Trek: Discovery season 5, providing Starfleet oversight on Burnham's latest mission. At the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 4, Vance vowed to spend more time with his family following the existential threat posed by Species 10-C . However, these plans may be derailed by the magnitude of Discovery's mission in season 5, forcing Vance to spend more time at Federation Headquarters.

4 David Cronenberg as Dr. Kovich

Starfleet's mysterious scientist gives the orders in discovery season 5..

Cult movie director David Cronenberg reprises the role of Doctor Kovich, who tasks Burnham with Star Trek: Discovery season 5's treasure hunt. An enigmatic figure, it's always hard to read the motives of Kovich, making him one of Discovery 's most fascinating characters. Hopefully, Kovich's intentions for the " greatest treasure in the known universe " are pure, but it's never easy to tell for sure. Previews of season 5 have revealed that Kovich will be taking a more hands-on approach this season, appearing alongside Captain Saru on the bridge of the USS Discovery .

3 Chelah Horsdal as Federation President Laira Rillak

Managing the political implications of burnham's mission..

Best known for her role as Helen in The Man in the High Castle , Chelah Horsdal returns to Star Trek: Discovery as President Laira Rillak. It's not clear what the wider political implications of season 5's treasure are, but it's certain that President Rillak will have to step in to mediate its impact on Federation relations. Having welcomed Earth back into the United Federation of Planets at the end of Star Trek: Discovery season 4, it's likely that Rillak will have her eyes on expanding UFP membership in season 5 .

2 Ian Alexander as Gray Tal

The trainee guardian returns in discovery season 5..

Rounding out Star Trek: Discovery season 5's returning characters is Ian Alexander as trainee Trill Guardian, Gray Tal . Gray and Adira have been in a long-distance relationship since they parted ways in Discovery season 4. In Discovery season 4, episode 10, "The Galactic Barrier," Adira told Burnham that they and Grey were where they both needed to be, so it would be interesting to see if that's still the case in season 5. Ian Alexander recently voiced the character of Lev in The Last of Us: Part II , but it's unknown if they will reprise that role for HBO's TV adaptation.

1 Star Trek: Discovery's New & Returning Bridge Crew

As ever, Captains Burnham and Saru will be joined by their loyal bridge crew in Star Trek: Discovery season 5. Everyone from tactical to helm to communications will be on hand to see the USS Discovery through its final mission. Making their final appearances as the bridge crew of the legendary USS Discovery in season 5 are:

• Emily Coutts as Lt. Commander Keyla Detmer (Helm)
• Patrick Kwok-Choon as Lt. Commander Gen Rhys (Tactical)
• Olyn Oladejo as Lt. Commander Joann Owasekun (Ops)
• Orville Cummings as Lt. Christopher (Communications)
• David Benjamin Tomlinson as Lt. Junior Grade Linus (Science)
• Annabelle Wallis as Zora

Star Trek: Discovery Season 5 Premieres With 2 Episodes On April 4th On Paramount+

Star Trek: Discovery

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Star Trek: Discovery is an entry in the legendary Sci-Fi franchise, set ten years before the original Star Trek series events. The show centers around Commander Michael Burnham, assigned to the USS Discovery, where the crew attempts to prevent a Klingon war while traveling through the vast reaches of space.