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Daniel Kushner

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Daniel Kushner is currently on the road with the First National Tour of Fiddler on the Roof, directed by Tony Award winner Bartlett Sher. He has performed in the show over 150 times.

Recent Highlights

Solomon Reynolds

Andrew hendrick, jason thomas sofge, morgan cohen, eddieomar gonzalez-castillo, ansley grace hamilton, jenna harwood, jonathan hashmonay.

Elliot Lazar

Mendel (U/S Motel, Perchik)

Max O'Connell

Lauren blair smith.

Sasha (U/S Perchik, Fyedka, and Constable)

Rosie Webber

Fruma-Sarah

Sophie Manoloff

Deborah york, greg paladino.

Associate Conductor

McKinley Foster

Guitar, Mandolin

Daniel is currently on the road with the First National Tour of Fiddler on the Roof, directed by Tony Award winner Bartlett Sher. He has performed in the show over 150 times. After singing and playing the piano his whole life, Daniel started acting in 6th grade in Into the Woods Jr. as Jack. He continued his musical training in high school, acting in every musical and play he could and beginning Jazz, Tap, and Ballet classes. He also sang in choir, and was selected to perform in the All-National Choir at the Grand Ole Opry House in Nashville, Tennessee. Upon graduating, he went to Brown University to continue his training as well as to expand his academic horizons in History, English, Music Theory, Anthropology, and more. During his time at Brown, he performed in over ten theatrical productions, was a member of the a cappella group Harmonic Motion, and trained in modern dance and ballet with Festival Ballet Providence. Though Daniel primarily works on the stage, he also has a great love for other mediums. He has acted in a number of student films while at Brown University, and has also done some editorial modeling in shoots like “Roots and Bones” by Tasha Hurley featured in 17:23 magazine. Daniel also created the podcast Rainbow Rewatch, hosted by Authentic Podcast Network, where he and co-host Leliana discuss and re-contextualize iconic movies from their childhood through their own twisted lens. Daniel is an avid historical fiction reader and published writer. He is currently working on his first full-length novel about Baron von Steuben, a queer, 18th-century military leader. He is also a professional tutor with Carnegie Prep. Proudly Jewish. He graduated magna cum laude, B.A. in History with a focus in American Imperialism in May 2020. He is also a member of Phi Beta Kappa, the oldest and most prestigious academic honors society in the country, and the recipient of a Joukowsky Award for Student Research.

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HARVARD ATHLETIC COMPLEX | Boston, MA

Boston calling music festival.

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Daniel Kushner

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National tour: Fiddler on the Roof. Graduate of Brown University, BA History. Recent credits: You’re a Good Man Charlie Brown (Charlie Brown), Pippin (u/s Pippin), Urinetown (Bobby), and James and the Giant Peach (Earthworm). A huge thank you to Bartlett Sher, Jason Styres, NETworks, and the entire Fiddler team for this opportunity, as well as Mom, Dad, and Grandpa for their support!

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In celebration of the 78th birthday (June 4, 1945) of Anthony Braxton—one of the most important musicians, educators, and creative thinkers of our time, as well as a mentor to EiO—Experiments in Opera presents a rare run of performances of Compositions No. 279-283, composed in 2000 for improvisational actor and improvising musicians.

In celebration of the 78th birthday (June 4, 1945) of Anthony Braxton—one of the most important musicians, educators, and creative thinkers of our time, as well as a mentor to EiO—Experiments in Opera presents a rare run of performances of Compositions No. 279-283, composed in 2000 for improvisational actor and improvising musicians.

The Palace Theater will bring the award-winning celebration of life, love, laughter, and, of course, tradition to Waterbury on Saturday, April 15, 2023, at 2 PM and 8 PM and Sunday, April 16, 2023, at 1 PM. 

The American Theatre Guild will present the innovative new production of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. This production is part of the BROADWAY AT THE FOX IN RIVERSIDE SERIES and will take the Fox Performing Arts Center stage March 29–30, 2023.

The American Theatre Guild will present an innovative new production of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. This production is part of the BROADWAY IN THOUSAND OAKS SERIES and will take the Bank of America Performing Arts Center stage March 9–12, 2023.

The American Theatre Guild will present the innovative new production of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. This production is part of the BROADWAY IN SOUTH BEND SERIES and will take the Morris Performing Arts Center stage February 3–5, 2023.

The American Theatre Guild presents the Tony Award-nominated Broadway Revival of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. This production is part of the BROADWAY AT THE BUDDY HOLLY HALL SERIES and will take The Buddy Holly Hall stage January 30–February 1, 2023.

Bartlett Sher’s Tony Award-winning production whisks audiences away to the humble Russian village of Anatevka.

Popejoy Presents and Haverland Carter Broadway in New Mexico will present the tour of the Tony Award-nominated Broadway revival of Fiddler on the Roof for six performances January 26 – 29, 2023.

What did our critic think of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF at Robinson Center? Thanks to 'Rona it took a Miracle of Miracles for FIDDLER ON THE ROOF to make it to Robinson Center, 426 W. Markam St., in Little Rock, Friday through Sunday, Nov. 25-27, but it was definitely worth the wait. Celebrity Attractions brought a powerhouse production that handled this classic delicately, yet fiery at the same time. With original direction by Bartlett Sher and recreated by Sari Ketter, time passed without notice from beginning to end of the musical- It was pure magic.

Barbara B. Mann Performing Arts Hall at FSW has announced that the individual tickets for the tour of the Tony Award-nominated Broadway revival of Fiddler on the Roof will go on sale Friday, November 18 at 10AM.

The American Theatre Guild presents the innovative new production of FIDDLER ON THE ROOF.

​​​​​​​Popejoy Presents and Haverland Carter Broadway in New Mexico have announced that the individual tickets for the tour of the Tony Award-nominated Broadway revival of Fiddler on the Roof will go on sale Thursday, October 6, 2022, at 10:00am.

Casting has been announced for the next season of the Non-Equity Fiddler on the Roof North American Tour. The tour will begin the 2022-2023 season on October 11, 2022 with a week of performances at the Fisher Theatre in Detroit, MI.

What did our critic think of THE 25TH ANNUAL PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE at Warehouse Theatre?

Six middle schoolers vie for the glory of being the undisputed Spelling Bee Champion in the outrageous and fun musical comedy, THE 25th ANNUAL PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE, with book by Rachel Sheinkin and music and lyrics by William Finn.

 The Grand will present the Wilmington engagement of the Tony Award®-nominated Broadway revival of Fiddler on the Roof at The Playhouse on Rodney Square from June 9-June 12.  

The Broadway classic is currently in residence at the Hobby Center and is a wonderful expression of both the beauties of our past and a great reminder that history repeats itself.

PNC Broadway in Kansas City will present the beloved theatrical classic FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. This production will take the Music Hall stage May 3–8, 2022.

The Tony Award®-nominated Broadway revival of Fiddler on the Roof returns to the Van Wezel on Tuesday, April 19, through Thursday, April 21, with all three performances starting at 7:30 p.m.

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Music Interviews

Danielle ponder — a singer who was once a lawyer — enjoys critical raves.

Daniel Kushner

The rising singer-songerwriter from Rochester, New York, talks about finding success after 40 in music, working with Billie Eilish's booking agent, and leaving behind a career as a public defender.

: [POST-BROADCAST CORRECTION: In this report, we incorrectly stated that Danielle Ponder works with Billie Eilish's manager. Ponder is working with Eilish's booking agent.]

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

And finally today, singer Danielle Ponder has been a much-appreciated presence in Rochester, N.Y.'s, music scene for more than a decade. But with her new album, Ponder has been enjoying critical raves and new attention from all over the country. The album is called "Some of Us Are Brave," and WXXI's Daniel Kushner has more on the album and his hometown star.

DANIEL KUSHNER, BYLINE: People in Rochester know Danielle Ponder as both a musician and a lawyer. She's worked in the Monroe County Public Defender's Office for nearly 10 years. Her new album, called "Some Of Us Are Brave," is named after a book that changed her life.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SOME OF US ARE BRAVE")

DANIELLE PONDER: (Singing) If the sky were to fall, I'd be the first to call. Some of us, some of us are brave.

When I first read that book, I was in law school, and I was first just struck by the title.

KUSHNER: The title is "All The Women Are White, All The Blacks Are Men, But Some Of Us Are Brave." It's an influential feminist anthology published in 1982. It addresses the lack of representation of Black women in feminist and Black studies and touches on topics ranging from racism to prison reform.

PONDER: The book just blew my mind. Like, just - I felt really seen in that book.

PONDER: (Singing) What a pity to be locked in a place. You see me now. I'll show you how. I'll show you how.

KUSHNER: I like that it's a challenge to - like, are you one of the brave ones, kind of?

PONDER: Yeah.

KUSHNER: Like, the implication there is it requires an action. Some of us are brave is different than saying, be brave.

PONDER: To me, there's also an implication that there is no choosing to be brave, right? That's what I say in the song. Ain't no choice but to be brave. It's the fact that we exist in this intersection that makes us brave, the fact that we have to live in the world as both Black and as woman. If you do nothing else but wake up and breathe, holding those two identities and walking in this world is bravery.

KUSHNER: Danielle Ponder has long written lyrics that affirm life's value in the face of institutions that have a history of beating people down. Her song "Working," from an earlier album, addresses the ever-present burden of student debt on working people.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "WORKING")

PONDER: (Singing) Eight hours, they say. Well, take the bills away. I did 16 today. Can't get rid of Saturday. These people got me got.

KUSHNER: In a 2019 TEDx Talk, Danielle Ponder said music rejuvenated her, even while working a demanding day job.

(SOUNDBITE OF TEDX TALK)

PONDER: I often tell people there is no way I could be a public defender if I did not also have music.

KUSHNER: The work, Ponder said, was sometimes frustrating and made her angry.

PONDER: Especially when I would be asked by people, how do you defend those people? Or, you defend the bad people, right? I could have easily given up on humanity, but I have this other part of me. I have music.

KUSHNER: Believe it or not, Danielle Ponder did not like the sound of her own voice. People told her she sounded like an old gospel singer.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "SO LONG")

PONDER: (Singing) I feel it when the sun goes down.

And I spent a lot of time trying to make my voice sound much cuter. Like, I don't sound like a cute R&B girl, man. In this album, I'm really singing my real tone, and I'm falling in love with it.

PONDER: (Singing) So long. So long, all my fears. I'm ready for the day.

KUSHNER: On this new album, "Some Of Us Are Brave," Ponder's songs have become more personal, more defiant, more emotionally complex, and the music industry has noticed. She's making the rounds of national TV talk shows. She's on a national tour, and she's played at nationally known venues such as the Kennedy Center and the Hollywood Bowl.

PONDER: Like, a lot of this that's happening, I didn't think this would happen after 40. I am shocked that there's a potential to be a household name.

KUSHNER: Even though Danielle Ponder is now working with Billie Eilish's manager, she does not believe she's going to be Billie Eilish famous anytime soon.

PONDER: I haven't had a moment where I'm like, I'll never have to go back to the public defender's office, I'll never have to go back to practicing law.

PONDER: (Singing) I know my time has finally come.

KUSHNER: What may be a loss for the legal profession is a win for music. Either way, justice is served. For NPR News, I'm Daniel Kushner.

PONDER: (Singing) If I lose some, so long - then I've lost them. What more can I say?

Copyright © 2022 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

Correction Sept. 18, 2022

In this report, we incorrectly stated that Danielle Ponder works with Billie Eilish's manager. Ponder is working with Eilish's booking agent.

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Moscow Metro

The Moscow Metro Tour is included in most guided tours’ itineraries. Opened in 1935, under Stalin’s regime, the metro was not only meant to solve transport problems, but also was hailed as “a people’s palace”. Every station you will see during your Moscow metro tour looks like a palace room. There are bright paintings, mosaics, stained glass, bronze statues… Our Moscow metro tour includes the most impressive stations best architects and designers worked at - Ploshchad Revolutsii, Mayakovskaya, Komsomolskaya, Kievskaya, Novoslobodskaya and some others.

What is the kremlin in russia?

The guide will not only help you navigate the metro, but will also provide you with fascinating background tales for the images you see and a history of each station.

And there some stories to be told during the Moscow metro tour! The deepest station - Park Pobedy - is 84 metres under the ground with the world longest escalator of 140 meters. Parts of the so-called Metro-2, a secret strategic system of underground tunnels, was used for its construction.

During the Second World War the metro itself became a strategic asset: it was turned into the city's biggest bomb-shelter and one of the stations even became a library. 217 children were born here in 1941-1942! The metro is the most effective means of transport in the capital.

There are almost 200 stations 196 at the moment and trains run every 90 seconds! The guide of your Moscow metro tour can explain to you how to buy tickets and find your way if you plan to get around by yourself.

Kushner’s Affinity Takes Board Seat at Brazil Fast-Food Operator

(Bloomberg) -- Jared Kushner’s Affinity Partners joined the board of Brazilian fast-food operator Zamp SA after making an investment of about $200 million earlier this year.

Asad Naqvi, a partner at Affinity, was elected as a board member during a general shareholders assembly on Friday, according to a company filing. Joining him among new investors will be Santiago Jariton, the chief investment officer at Emerging Variant Capital Management.

Mubadala Capital, the wholly-owned unit of the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund which controls Zamp, retained Leonardo Yamamoto as chairman and added two other executives, including Brazil country head Oscar Fahlgren to the board.

Zamp has more than 1,000 Burger King and Popeyes restaurants in Brazil and is in talks to acquire the rights to also represent Starbucks Corp. in the South American country. After a prolonged effort to take control of Zamp, Mubadala now owns 58% of the company with Restaurant Brands International Inc. holding a 9% stake.

Zamp is the first known Latin America investment for Affinity Partners which was launched after Kushner left the White House where he worked in his father-in-law Donald Trump’s administration. He’s used his global ties from the previous role to help raise funds, including from the Middle East.

Read more: Kushner Targets Zamp Board After $200 Million Bet With Mubadala

Other directors include Renato Rossi, the head of Restaurant Brands for Latin America and the Caribbean. 

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Inside the Field: Zurich Classic of New Orleans

Inside the Field

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The PGA TOUR heads to TPC Louisiana for the Zurich Classic of New Orleans.

The Zurich Classic of New Orleans field is built as follows: Each of the top available players from the PGA TOUR Priority Ranking who commits to the tournament chooses his partner, who in turn must have PGA TOUR status unless he is chosen as a tournament sponsor exemption.

Check out the teams below:

• Matt Fitzpatrick and Alex Fitzpatrick
• Collin Morikawa and Kurt Kitayama
• Gary Woodland and Lee Hodges
• Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry
• Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele
• Will Zalatoris and Sahith Theegala
• Pierceson Coody and Parker Coody
• Rasmus Højgaard and Nicolai Højgaard
• Davis Riley and Nick Hardy
• Taylor Pendrith and Corey Conners
• Nick Taylor and Adam Hadwin
• Wyndham Clark and Beau Hossler
• Billy Horschel and Tyson Alexander
• Luke Donald and Francesco Molinari
• Steve Stricker and Matt Kuchar
• Charley Hoffman and Nick Watney
• Thorbjorn Olesen and Matt Wallace
• Justin Suh and Rico Hoey
• Eric Cole and Russ Cochran
• Taylor Moore and Matt Nesmith
• Sepp Straka and Brice Garnett
• Peter Malnati and Russell Knox
• Ryan Fox and Garrick Higgo
• Tom Hoge and Maverick McNealy
• Austin Eckroat and Chris Gotterup
• Daniel Berger and Victor Perez
• Ryan Brehm and Mark Hubbard
• Cameron Champ and MJ Daffue
• Nico Echavarria and Max Greyserman
• Brice Garnett and Sepp Straka
• Kevin Kisner and Scott Brown
• K.H. Lee and Michael Kim
• Luke List and Henrik Norlander
• Taylor Moore and Matt NeSmith
• Vincent Norrman and Jorge Campillo
• Chad Ramey and Martin Trainer
• Chez Reavie and Brandt Snedeker
• J.J. Spaun and Hayden Buckley
• Zach Johnson and Ryan Palmer
• Kelly Kraft and Kevin Tway
• Kevin Chappell and Jason Dufner
• Brandon Wu and James Nicholas
• Thriston Lawrence and Aldrich Potgieter
• Andrew Putnam and Joe Highsmith
• Taylor Montgomery and Ben Griffin
• Alex Smalley and Matti Schmid
• Thomas Detry and Robert MacIntyre
• Beau Hossler and Sam Ryder
• Keith Mitchell and Joel Dahmen
• Sam Stevens and Paul Barjon
• Aaron Rai and David Lipsky
• S.H. Kim and Sangmoon Bae
• Davis Thompson and Andrew Novak
• Ben Taylor and Sean O'Hair
• Garrick Higgo and Ryan Fox
• Robby Shelton and Wilson Furr
• Callum Tarren and David Skinns
• Dylan Wu and Justin Lower
• Harry Hall and Justin Lower
• Nate Lashley and Rafael Campos
• Greyson Sigg and Chesson Hadley
• Carson Young and Ben Martin
• Kevin Streelman and Martin Laird
• Zac Blair and Patrick Fishburn
• Kevin Yu and C.T. Pan
• Doug Ghim and Chan Kim
• Troy Merritt and Robert Streb
• Carl Yuan and Zecheng Dou
• Jhonattan Vegas and Bronson Burgoon
• Vince Whaley and Adam Long
• Ben Kohles and Patton Kizzire
• Chandler Phillips and Jacob Bridgeman
• Erik Barnes and Harrison Endycott
• Jimmy Stanger and Adrien Dumont de Chassart
• Alejandro Tosti and Ted Potter, Jr.
• Ben Silverman and Kevin Dougherty
• Hayden Springer and Tom Whitney
• Mac Meissner and Austin Smotherman
• Norman Xiong and Ryan McCormick
• Trace Crowe and Harry Higgs
• Roger Sloan and Josh Teater
• Raul Pereda and Austin Cook
• Scott Gutschewski and Jonathan Byrd
• Blaine Hale, Jr. and Paul Haley II

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‘The working class can’t afford it’: the shocking truth about the money bands make on tour

As Taylor Swift tops $1bn in tour revenue, musicians playing smaller venues are facing pitiful fees and frequent losses. Should the state step in to save our live music scene?

W hen you see a band playing to thousands of fans in a sun-drenched festival field, signing a record deal with a major label or playing endlessly from the airwaves, it’s easy to conjure an image of success that comes with some serious cash to boot – particularly when Taylor Swift has broken $1bn in revenue for her current Eras tour. But looks can be deceiving. “I don’t blame the public for seeing a band playing to 2,000 people and thinking they’re minted,” says artist manager Dan Potts. “But the reality is quite different.”

Post-Covid there has been significant focus on grassroots music venues as they struggle to stay open. There’s been less focus on the actual ability of artists to tour these venues. David Martin, chief executive officer of the Featured Artists Coalition (FAC), says we’re in a “cost-of-touring crisis”. Pretty much every cost attached to touring – van hire, crew, travel, accommodation, food and drink – has gone up, while fees and audiences often have not. “[Playing] live is becoming financially unsustainable for many artists,” he says. “Artists are seeing [playing] live as a loss leader now. That’s if they can even afford to make it work in the first place.”

Potts, who works at Red Light Management – home to everyone from Sabrina Carpenter to Kaiser Chiefs and Sofia Kourtesis – feels like there is an industry equivalent of the Spider-Man meme in which they are all pointing to one another. “People who work at labels think bands make loads of money touring, while booking agents think they make loads of money on publishing and so on,” he says. “Everyone thinks artists make money from the other side of the industry they’re not involved in.

“Artists are the biggest employers in the industry. They pay for the tour manager, session musicians, agent, manager, crew, insurance, travel, accommodation, equipment, rehearsal space, production. Everything. I don’t think people know this is all the stuff that the artist pays for and does.”

“Greater transparency is needed,” says Lily Fontaine, lead singer of Leeds band English Teacher. On paper, the four-piece appear to have made it. They are signed with a major label, Island, have played on Later With … Jools Holland, get healthy BBC Radio 6Music airplay, their debut album has received five-star reviews and they are about to embark on their biggest tour to date, which includes an 800-capacity home-town show.

“The reality is that it’s normal for all of these achievements to coexist alongside being on Universal Credit, living at home or sofa surfing,” says Fontaine. During the making of their debut album, she and bandmate Lewis Whiting did the latter while unable to afford rent.

In their four years of existence, English Teacher have yet to turn a profit from touring. “We’ve never directly paid ourselves from a gig,” says Whiting. “A headline tour usually comes out with a deficit. The only thing that we ever make any kind of profit on is festivals, because the fees can be higher, but any money left over just goes towards the next outgoings.” A successful show for the group in the past has been defined by whether they can flog enough merch to afford a supermarket food shop.

So how do they survive? “In the world of artists, we’re in a lucky position,” says Whiting. “We try to pay ourselves £500 a month each from the band pot.” However, they’ve been reliant on their advance for this, which is now gone. “We’re now in that stage where we’re gonna have to figure out where that £500 a month is gonna come from,” says Fontaine. “Because the gig fees won’t be able to cover that.” The band estimate that their 16-date UK tour in May will generate roughly £800 profit. But, says Fontaine, “realistically, I don’t think there will be any profit because things always go over budget”.

For many artists, fees aren’t increasing in line with costs. “There’s been no real incline at all,” says Potts. “For support slots, I don’t think the fees have changed in the last 10 years or so that I’ve been managing, whether that’s £50 at the smaller end or £500 quid for some of the biggest shows.” Fees for headline shows can vary enormously for bands, even on the same tour. Playing a 200-capacity club in Newcastle may land you £600, while a 1,500 cap in London may net you £3,000.

And fewer people are coming to shows at the small-to-mid-sized end of things. “In our audience data, we see there is a gap in new audiences coming through post-pandemic,” says the FAC’s Martin. “As well as a bit of a drop-off in some of the older audiences returning to live shows.” However, despite stagnant fees and shrinking audiences, touring activity in the UK is at a peak. Due to the costs of touring Europe (which can be thousands in taxes and carnet alone) 74% fewer UK bands are now touring Europe post-Brexit. “It’s much more difficult to tour in Europe so there are more artists trying to perform domestically,” says Martin. “That creates a saturation problem.”

For this article, the Guardian has seen 12 tour budget sheets for various bands and artists varying from up-and-comers to firmly established and successful acts, all of whom regularly undertake headline tours across the UK in venues ranging from 150 to 2,500 capacity. Almost all of these result in losses. Understandably, most shared their balance sheets on the condition of anonymity. One four-piece indie band, whose last two albums went Top 10 in the UK charts, reported a loss of £2,885 from a six-day UK tour. The only tour that shows anything resembling healthy profit was a 29-date tour for a solo artist who came away with £6,550. Not bad going for a month’s work but, as Martin points out, “that’s then his touring done for the next six months. So it’s not enough money.”

Nubiyan Twist are a nine-piece Afro-jazz outfit who have a loyal following and tens of millions of streams on Spotify, “We pride ourselves on being able to put on a big show, like your Fela Kutis or James Browns, these epic spectacles,” says bandleader Tom Excell. “But it’s getting more difficult, without a shadow of a doubt.” For an upcoming eight-show tour of Europe, they are predicting a loss of £4,931.28. The only way they can justify doing it is because they got funding from the BPI Music Export Growth Scheme. “I would have just pulled the plug if it wasn’t for that,” says Excell. “I’ve got a two-year-old and I can’t be away from home for that long and come back with a loss.”

Even when the band get more lucrative fees for festivals it’s still tough. They will be paid £5,000 for a festival performance this summer but the total profit after band wages (as Excell pays all his band members in full first) expenses and commissions are paid out will be £277.60. “After four albums and 15 years doing this, to still be having to gamble on whether I’m going to make anything, while everyone else gets paid a guaranteed amount, is a struggle,” admits Excell.

Such thin margins leave little wiggle room, as the space-surf band Japanese Television (who headline 100-300 capacity venues) found out when their booking agent reduced their 13-date UK and EU tour to eight shows with a five-day gap in the middle that will add a further loss of around £1,200 to a tour that is already set to lose them around £700. “Records and T-shirts are basically what keeps us going,” says the band’s Tim Jones. “The only way this tour is working for us is because we just put out our second album and we did about 60 presales on the vinyl and that was basically enough to pay for the van. It’s a hobby that just about pays for itself.”

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The question is: who else will be able to afford to pursue music as a hobby? “It depresses me how many middle and upper class people there are in the music industry,” says manager Potts. “Because the working class just can’t afford to fork out £150 a day for van hire. The only artists doing that are people who have deeper pockets and can afford to take the hit.”

Of course, every act is different in terms of what they justify as reasonable outgoings and not everyone has the same costs, but Potts says from his experience, generally speaking, bands with four or five members now need to be playing 2,000+ capacity venues nationwide to “really start to see things tip”. That tipping point is out of reach for the majority. “Most people don’t actually get to that level,” Potts says. “Just look back at any festival lineup from 10-20 years ago and see which names are still on festival bills and how many you’re like: what happened to them?”

The gap between those who are flying and those who are floundering has become even more stark. “It feels like the top 1% have become the top 0.5%,” says Martin. “The level of artists we’re talking about here that are struggling to make things stack up financially would really surprise people.”

In 2022, the Grammy-winning Pakistani singer Arooj Aftab posted on X: “Touring has been amazing. We headlined a ton, had massive turnouts and have proven ourselves in all the markets. Yet still, running tens of thousands in debt from the tour and I’m being told that it’s ‘normal’. Why is this normal? This should not be normalised.”

I’m told that one US artist – who released one of the most critically acclaimed albums of 2023, which went Top 10 and placed very highly on numerous year-end polls and was nominated for a major award – worked out that the only way she could make her UK tour work was by sub-letting her home.

It’s a far cry from Taylor Swift’s record-breaking Eras jaunt. “The very high end of the live industry is reporting record profits,” says Martin. “You can’t have a healthy music ecosystem where at one end you’ve got people going ‘we’ve made more money than we’ve ever made’ and at the other end you’ve got relatively successful artists that are sofa-surfing while signed to a major label.”

Is there an answer? “When you’re touring Europe, you realise how much state funding in the arts there is,” says Excell. “It really needs more state funding and support from the top down.”

Martin echoes this. “The government needs to start looking at spending money on the music industry as an investment rather than as a cost,” he says. “But you also need to support a sector in a time of crisis. And this is a time of crisis.”

• Pop and rock
• Music industry
• Taylor Swift

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