casino tour de salvany

Pasino Grand-La Tour de Salvagny

Après de longs mois de rénovation, le célèbre Casino du Lyon Vert fait sa mue et devient le Pasino Grand-La Tour Salvagny, intégrant ainsi les prestigieux établissements majeurs du Groupe Partouche.

Cette transformation marque une nouvelle ère pour le casino, offrant aux visiteurs une expérience de jeu encore plus immersive et divertissante.

Avec un accroissement remarquable de ses espaces de jeux, passant de 1600m2 à près de 4000m2, le Pasino Grand-La Tour Salvagny proposera une variété exceptionnelle de :

• Jeux de table
• Machines à sous
• Un espace dédié aux roulettes électroniques animé et festif
• Des espaces de jeux en extérieur

Cette modernisation du casino s’accompagne également de l’intégration des dernières technologies, assurant aux joueurs une expérience innovante.

Des surprises culinaires attendent les convives avec une offre bistronomique de qualité et surprenante.

200, avenue du Casino 69890 La Tour de Salvagny 04 78 87 02 70

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Pasino Grand Partouche Lyon

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PASINO GRAND PARTOUCHE LYON (La Tour-de-Salvagny): Ce qu'il faut savoir pour votre visite (avec critiques)

• dim - sam 10:00 - 04:00
• (0.07 Km) Pavillon de la Rotonde Hôtel & Spa
• (0.53 Km) Hotel Le Beaulieu
• (0.49 Km) Apartment RDJ in quiet property in the countryside, near Lyon
• (3.46 Km) Les Communs du Manoir
• (0.79 Km) T2 quiet and independent
• (0.01 Km) Dimanche Gourmand du Pavillon
• (0.02 Km) Brasserie Le Caz
• (0.36 Km) le bistro du château
• (0.54 Km) Café-Restaurant Le Beaulieu
• (0.73 Km) L'Allegria - Trattoria et Pizzeria

Casino Le Lyon Vert

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A propos de Domaine du Lyon vert

Le Casino Le Lyon Vert est un des casinos les plus emblématiques du groupe Partouche. Situé dans la périphérie de Lyon, le casino fut construit après la Belle Epoque dans un style Art Déco.

Le Casino est ouvert tous les jours de 10h à 4h du matin. Il ferme à 5h le week-end et les veilles de jours de fête.

Jeux du Casino Le Lyon Vert

Le Casino propose 400 machines à sous, dont 150 Video-Poker, avec des mises allant de 0,05€ à 5€.

Tous les jeux de casino proposés par le groupe Partouche sont disponibles au Lyon Vert. Retrouvez le Blackjack (mises 10€-500€), la Roulette (min 2€), la Boule, le Stud Poker, et le Poker Texas Hold'em (caves allant de 100€ à 250€).

Restauration

Le Lyon Vert met à la disposition des joueurs trois restaurants.

La Cascade est un restaurant d'entrée de gamme avec des formules allant de 9,90€ à 18,90€, généralement prisé par les joueurs de poker.

Le Baccara cible une clientèle supérieure avec un menu à 26€ dans un cadre plus raffiné.

Le restaurant gastronomique Philippe Gauvreau est le navire amiral du Lyon Vert, distingué par deux étoiles au guide Michelin. Il s'agit d'un restaurant d'exception dans un style contemporain. Menus de 58€ à 138€.

Hébergement

Le Casino le Lyon Vert ne propose pas d'hébergement. 

La meilleure alternative est le Pavillon de la Rotonde à 3km, un 5* à partir de 150€ la nuit, dans un cadre extraordinaire. Pour les plus petits budgets, le Park Inn ouest pourrait faire l'affaire à partir de 69€. Cependant, nous vous conseillons vivement le pavillon de la Rotonde pour un week end au Lyon Vert. 

Vie culturelle & Tourisme

Le Casino du Lyon Vert propose de nombreuses manifestations tout au long de l'année: expositions, concerts, spectacles, etc. Consultez le site Internet pour être tenu au courant de leur agenda.

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Casino Le Lyon Vert

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Âge minimum: 18 Prix d’entrée: gratuit Devises: Euros Pièce d’identité: obligatoire

Adresse et coordonnées du Casino Le Lyon Vert

Casino Le Lyon Vert 200, avenue du Casino 69890 La Tour de Salvagny, Téléphone: +33 (0)4 78 87 02 70 Site Web: http://www.casinolyonvert.com/

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Pour vous divertir & passer un moment convivial

Humour, théâtre, concert live, le PASINO GRAND vous réserve une programmation éclectique avec de nombreux artistes sur la scène de notre salle de spectacle !

Le PASINO GRAND est la promesse d’une expérience de JEU unique, avant-gardiste, qui flirte avec futurisme, et doté d’une prédominance pour le divertissement, pour le FUN !

Plongez au cœur d’une nouvelle atmosphère puissante et captivante qui saura vous subjuguer de par ses aspects immersifs et interactifs…

Avec ses 280 machines à sous, ses 137 postes de jeux électroniques (black jack et roulette anglaise électroniques) et ses 27 tables de jeux traditionnels (roulette anglaise, blackjack, poker), le PASINO GRAND offre une diversité extraordinaire de jeux pour votre plus grand plaisir !

Ouvert de 10H00 à 04H00 du matin, vous pourrez vous initier aux jeux traditionnels ou essayer de remporter le jackpot sur l’une de nos machines à sous.

Toute l’année, de nombreuses offres et animations (tombolas, soirées anniversaires, …) et des soirées BINGOS endiablées en Salle de Spectacle font du casino le lieu incontournable de toutes les fêtes les plus originales !

Extérieures

Soins, massages, détente au Spa Thermes Sextius Au départ du PASINO GRAND : rallyes découvertes (à pieds, à vélo, en voitures…), Escapes Game en ville….

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Le Bistro du Chateau

Ratings and reviews, location and contact.

My wife and I were staying in Lyon with her sister, brother in law and 2 sons, and had lunch here to celebrate her sister's birthday. All aspects of our lunch were perfect - location, decor, facilities, food, wine and service - which made this... a very special and memorable occasion. I could not fault my veloute de champignons starter and the main course of pave de fletans was sublime. No complaints either about the cremeux dessert and my brother in law's excellent wine choice of the Crozes-hermitage Alberic. We look forward to returning to this wonderful restaurant when we next visit our family in Lyon. More

The grounds and buildings at this site are very very nice and perfect for weddings or similar events. Attended a business group here recently, with a limited fixed menu for the group. THe starter soup was a mushroom bisque which was really excellent Main course... was mashed potatoes, some beef and a few roasted vegetables. Potatoes were very flavorful.beef wa good but not really outstanding, and a few vegetables were nice. A small dessert was provided...I forget how to describe it but it was delicious. Overall nice meal with good personalized service. No complaints. More

lunch with family and 1st circle of friends to celebrate my daughter's wedding we had a private room nicely decorated and adjacent terrace for drinks casual atmosphere great for the lot of kids

I'm a little surprised by some of the lukewarm reviews for the Bistro du Chateau on Trip Advisor. My wife and I have dined in the restaurant several times, and we have so enjoyed the meals we've had at the Bistro du Chateau that we... asked them to be the venue for our daughter and son-in-law's wedding reception in July 2017. What a good decision that was! The Bistro is very ably managed by Mr. Morissot, a real pro who ensures that guests have everything they could desire during their meal. The food is excellent, locally sourced and (as befits Lyon, the gastronomic capital of the world), just the right balance of sophistication and casualness. The restaurant is situated on the top of a hill, half way between Carbonnières-les-Bains at Tour de Salvany, in an imposing 19th Century "chateau" (more like a large manor house) with a beautiful terrace outside, well shaded by large sun umbrellas. The service is professional, the waiters attentive, and all in all, the meals at the Bistro have been among of the nicest dining experiences we have had in the Lyonnais region (which we know well). The wedding reception (which brought together people from the US, France, UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Ireland) was a great success due to the combination of excellent service and good luck with the weather. The staff were very flexible, kind, and efficient. We will be back at the Bistro (most recently for lunch today), because a meal there is a memorable experience well worth the money. More

LE BISTRO DU CHATEAU, La Tour-de-Salvagny - Menu, Prices & Restaurant Reviews - Tripadvisor

• La Tour-de-Salvagny, Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes /

Le Bistro du Château

Explore the world of French cuisine here. Degust nicely cooked fillet steaks , salona and tartare this restaurant offers. You can order tasty parfait and good choux . As a number of guests affirm, wine is really delicious. Le Bistro du Château serves great coffee .

The great location of this place makes it easy to reach by any transport. Many visitors find the staff well-trained. The fine service is something these restaurateurs care about. You will appreciate the modern decor and comfortable ambiance of this spot. Google users awarded this restaurant 4.4.

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UN LIEU UNIQUE A 15MN DE LYON

Une table gourmande et conviviale, ideal pour vos evenements professionnels ou prives, decouvrez notre restaurant avec la visite interactive 3d.

« On ne peut pas faire de cuisine si on n’aime pas les gens »   (Joël Robuchon)

Le Bistro du Château vous propose un moment de partage autour d’une table gourmande et conviviale . Situé à La Tour-de-Salvagny (proche du Casino le Lyon Vert), découvrez notre restaurant Bistronomique ou produits frais et amour du goût font notre cuisine maison.

Et à chaque saison, sa nouvelle carte !

Le Bistro du Château, bâtisse du 19 ème siècle, c’est aussi un lieu atypique pour des évènements professionnels ou privés réussis (8 salles modulables à votre disposition). Toute l’équipe est à votre entière écoute et vous accompagne dans l’organisation de votre événement. Enfin, au cœur d’un parc de 2 hectares, venez-vous détendre et profiter de notre terrasse, du bar ou des terrains de pétanque pour vivre des moments uniques en famille ou entre amis dans un cadre exceptionnel, à seulement 15 mn de Lyon.

Nous contacter : 04 78 46 35 04 • 154 avenue du Casino • 69890 La Tour-de-Salvagny •  [email protected]

         Découvrez notre  restaurant  avec la visite interactive

VOIR LA VISITE VIRTUELLE

OUVERTURE : 7 jours / 7 Lundi  : 12h-16h Mardi  : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Mercredi  : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Jeudi  : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Vendredi  : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Samedi  : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Dimanche  : 12h-16h

LE BISTRO DU CHÂTEAU Nous contacter : 04 78 46 35 04 [email protected]

• LE RESTAURANT

LE BISTRO DU CHÂTEAU 154 avenue du Casino 69890 La Tour de Salvagny Tel : 04 78 46 35 04 [email protected]

OUVERTURE : 7 jours / 7 Lundi : 12h-16h Mardi : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Mercredi : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Jeudi : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Vendredi : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Samedi : 12h-16h & 18h-23h Dimanche : 12h-16h

© 2024 Le Bistro du château.

VENTE A EMPORTER - Menu de la semaine

du lundi midi au dimanche midi et du mardi soir au samedi soir

Tartare de crevettes marinées au curry, houmous au citron confit

Œuf mimosa et mesclun aux légumes croquants

Filet de saumon grillé et crème d'oseille, tagliatelles et flan d'asperges

Suprême de poulet rôti et jus au romarin, tagliatelles et flan d'asperges

Salade de fruits frais de saison

Île flottante au coulis de pralines roses

Plat : 12€ / Entrée plat ou Plat dessert : 17€ / Menu complet : 20€

Commandes au 04 78 46 35 04  .

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LA MAISON D'IVONA

Offrant une vue sur le jardin, l'établissement LA MAISON D'IVONA propose un hébergement avec terrasse, à environ 12 km du théâtre romain de Fourvière.

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Situé sur les rives de la Saône, l'Hôtel Lyon Métropole propose des hébergements avec une réception ouverte 24h/24 et une connexion Wi-Fi gratuite. Un parking est disponible gratuitement sur place.

B&B HOTEL Lyon Nord 4 étoiles

Situé au cœur du quartier d'affaires de Dardilly, à 15 minutes de route du centre-ville de Lyon et à 20 minutes en voiture du Beaujolais, le B&B HOTEL Lyon Nord 4 étoiles propose des chambres...

Hotel ParkSaône

L'Hotel ParkSaône se situe sur la rive de la Saône à Lyon. Vous pourrez profiter d'un restaurant sur place, d'un bar et d'une terrasse.

Fourvière Hôtel

Situé sur la colline de Fourvière qui surplombe la vieille ville de Lyon, le Fourvière Hôtel offre une vue sur la métropole. Il comprend une piscine extérieure chauffée ouverte toute l'année.

Ibis Styles Lyon Croix Rousse

L'hôtel Ibis Styles Lyon Croix Rousse est situé dans le centre de Lyon, dans le quartier de la Croix Rousse.

Domaine Lyon Saint Joseph

Situé à seulement 15 minutes en voiture du centre de Lyon, le Domaine Lyon Saint Joseph dispose d’un restaurant et d’un bar sur place. Le spa Calicéo est à seulement 5 minutes de route de l'hôtel.

L'Ermitage Hôtel Cuisine-À-Manger

L'Ermitage Hôtel Cuisine-À-Manger est situé sur le mont Cindre, surplombant Lyon et les monts d'Or. Il dispose d'une connexion Wi-Fi gratuite, ainsi que de piscines intérieure et extérieure.

ibis Lyon Nord

Doté d'une piscine dans son jardin, l'hôtel climatisé ibis Lyon Nord vous accueille à moins de 15 minutes en voiture du centre-ville de Lyon et la gare de Lyon-Part-Dieu.

Campanile Lyon Nord - Ecully

Idéalement situé à 8 km au nord de la ville de Lyon, le Campanile Lyon Nord - Ecully est facilement accessible depuis l’autoroute E15/A6 qui mène au centre-ville.

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Autrefois appelé par de très nombreux Lyonnais le « casino de Charbonnières », le casino le Lyon Vert a pourtant toujours été implanté sur les terres de La-Tour-de-Salvagny. Fraîchement agrandi en version XXL, le casino du groupe Partouche est rebaptisé « Pasino Grand La Tour », un nom et un concept inspirés de Las Vegas où le Casino devient non seulement un espace de jeux mais aussi un complexe...

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Casino Moscow : A Tale of Greed and Adventure on Capitalism's Wildest Frontier Hardcover – Bargain Price, July 3, 2001

Despite the title, Casino Moscow isn't just about Moscow--some of the best sections cover other parts of Russia: "It was heartbreaking that St. Petersburg had been so mistreated. Yet even in its state of decay, I still preferred its shabby elegance to Moscow's new-money makeover. In St. Petersburg you lived for the past; Moscow lived only for the day." At the edge of Siberia, on the Pacific coast, is Vladivostok--"five time zones ahead of the Russian capital, but a decade behind." The book is a fast-paced adventure story--and a must for readers interested in Russia as well as fans of modern-day gonzo journalism. Brzezinski is a writer to watch. --John Miller

• Print length 320 pages
• Publication date July 3, 2001
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• ASIN ‏ : ‎ B000F6ZAVI
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About the authors

Matthew brzezinski.

Matthew Brzezinski began working as a journalist in the early 1990s in Warsaw, writing for publications including The New York Times, The Economist, and The Guardian (UK). He was a Wall Street Journal staff reporter in Moscow and Kiev in the late 1990s. Relocating to the US, he became a contributing writer for The New York Times Magazine, covering counterterrorism in the aftermath of 9/11. His work has also appeared in many other publications including The Washington Post Magazine, the Los Angeles Times, and Mother Jones.

Brzezinski's fourth book, Isaac's Army (Random House, 2012) is set in World War II. Isaac's Army tells the story of a group of young Polish Jews and the Polish Jewish underground, from its earliest acts of defiance in 1939 to the survivors' exodus to Palestine in 1946. The book draws on interviews with surviving Resistance members and unpublished memoirs, as well as Polish-language sources and established academic works on the subject of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.

Brzezinski is the author of three previous nonfiction books. His first book, Casino Moscow (Free Press, 2001) is a first-person account of the "Wild East" atmosphere prevailing in Russia in the 1990s. His second book, Fortress America (Bantam, 2004) addresses the new technology, laws, tactics, and persistent vulnerabilities of the post-9/11 era. His third book, Red Moon Rising (Simon and Schuster, 2007) is a work of narrative nonfiction that tells the story of the race to space culminating in the Sputnik launch by the USSR on October 4, 1957, drawing on previously classified Soviet documents. Red Moon Rising won the 2009 Sir Arthur Clarke award.

Of Polish heritage, Brzezinski was born in Canada. He is the nephew of former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski and the cousin of television anchor Mika Brzezinski. He lives in Manchester-by-the-sea, Massachusetts with his wife and three children.

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• Regent Seven Seas Cruises

Best of Moscow by high speed train

By shuguley , February 15, 2014 in Regent Seven Seas Cruises

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Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.

Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?

My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

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If you are considering this on the 2015 June Baltic cruise on Voyager; my suggestion is don't. There is so much to do in St. Petersburg and although a train is one of my favorite ways to travel the time would be far better spent in St. P.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, this would be on the Voyager during the 2015 season but not yet sure exactly which cruise.

We did the Moscow excursion "on a different luxury line", but from your brief description it sounds very much like the same trip, so I will operate on that assumption. It is a VERY long day! We left the ship at 5:30 AM and returned at 12:30 AM. The highspeed train trip is comfortable, and while they call it "Business Class" it does not compare well to the equivalent class on say Rail Europe. When we did it in 2011, we did have highspeed both ways, and the trip back seemed much longer as the adrenaline and excitement had worn off!:D

Moscow itself is not that terribly different from any other big city in the world, but this Cold War kid never thought he would ever stand in Red Square, never mind walk the grounds of The Kremlin, or tour The Kremlin Palace, or see (but not visit) Lenin's Tomb, or visit The Armoury. But he did, and he loved every minute of it! Yes, it is a long day, and you barely scratch a scratch on the surface, but it is worth it. There is a tremendous amount to see in St. Petersburg, but every Baltic cruise goes to St. Petersburg, so you can go back if you choose to. Not every cruiseline offers you the chance to see Moscow.

I have not personally done this tour, but our last time in St Petersburg, the private guide that we hired for a day was leading the regent tour to Moscow on the high speed train the next day. He said it was way better than the previous alternative, which was flying to Moscow and back. He said that you actually got to Moscow faster because you didn't have to deal with airline checkin etc. it did seem like a very long day to me, and there is so much to see and do in st. Petersburg that I didn't consider doing it.

countflorida

We toured to Moscow from St. Petersburg via the hi-speed SAPSAN train last September, from a Baltic cruise on the Oceania Marina. You need to have a two-night, three day port call in St. Petersburg to take this tour because the tour typically leaves the ship around 5:00 - 5:30 AM and doesn't return until after midnight the next day. We didn't take the ship's tour; we made private arrangements with TravelAllRussia for three days of touring, the first and third days in St. Petersburg and the second day the tour to Moscow by train. Our cost for the private tour for three days was about the same as what the ship charged for the excursion to Moscow alone. There are a number of private tour agencies that operate in St. Petersburg and offer the Moscow train tours; we would strongly recommend them over the ship's tours.

All three days had private guides with car and driver. The second day, the driver picked us up at the ship and took us to the train, but we were alone on the train, and met in Moscow by the guide on the station platform. After our tour and dinner, we were brought back to the train and after the return train trip met by the driver and taken back to the ship. Because you are alone on the train you must have your own Russian visas.

If this is your first visit to St. Petersburg, I would agree there is much more to see there. We found Moscow somewhat a disappointment, particularly Red Square. The Kremlin and the cathedral in Red Square were also worth seeing. But the best thing we saw was the Moscow subway! I worked for the Washington Metro system back in the 1980s as it grew from 40 to 80 miles and although I was in the computer area, I learned a lot about the challenges of running a subway system. We used the Moscow system to get across the city from where we had dinner to the train station, and I was amazed at the cleanliness', speed of operation, the short headways maintained, and the courtesy of everyone involved. A very impressive experience!

We had been to St. Petersburg before, and so had the time to take a day and go to Moscow. Also, I really like trains, and the SAPSAN is a German train set running on Russian rails. Seats are like first class domestic air, spacious but not too plush or comfortable, but with enough room. Not too much recline, and almost 8 hours on the train in two shots is a lot for an old man. They come through and sell drinks, candy, etc. but the sellers don't speak English and no one around us helped, so we had just poor coffee once coming, and brought stuff with us for the trip back. Not too much to see from the train either, particularly on the return when it is night the whole way.

If you decide to go, take a private tour and avoid the overly expensive ship's tour. I'm glad we did it, but wouldn't bother to repeat the tour; we've seen Moscow.

Thanks so much to all of you for the thorough and thought insight. Yhe information you have provided is most helpful.

countflorida: Your detailed post is very helpful. We are not quite ready for a Baltic cruise but should do so within a year. Time enough to do our pre travel research, bookings and visa gathering.:) Thank you!

Emperor Norton

Sure would appreciate someone who has taken "Best of Moscow by high speed train" from St. Petersburg could please share their impressions of this shore excursion. From the description this sounds like a very long day.   Wondering how the 4 hour train trip was in terms of accommodations, etc. Also what time did you leave the ship and what time at night did you return? Were both legs of the trip on the high speed rail (I read that slower trains also travel the same tracks)?   My wife and I are considering this excursion. We thought that if we are making all the effort to go to Russia then how could we pass up going to Moscow, walking in Red Square, seeing St. Basil, etc.

I did this on Seabourn. IMO DONT. Take Aeroflop (er Aeroflot). The train has non folding seats where you are literally knee to knee with your fellow passenger (facing each other). Further they don't believe in air conditioning. It's also the worlds slowed bullet train. I think I would have found more enjoyment wandering around the St. Petersburg and Moscow airports.

Countflorida,

This is a little off topic,, however we had planned a river cruise in Russia but decided we would rather stay on land and have booked about two weeks with Travel-All-Russia using the private guide and driver. I'm curious as to how you found them as a tour company.

The guides they provided were fine. We had a different guide each of the days in St. Petersburg, but both were flexible, pleasant, knowledgeable and spoke English very well, as did the guide in Moscow, incidentally. She was a bit aloof, distant, not too friendly, but otherwise fine. In fact, she was the one who suggested taking the Metro, which unexpectedly became one of the highlights of the Moscow excursion. If I have a complaint with AllTravelRussia, it is with their plan and its execution (more later).

I had requested emphasis on World War II (in Russia, the Great Patriotic War) sites and info. In scheduling us, they weren't careful about dates and a couple of the sites we wanted to see were scheduled on the third day, after we'd been to Moscow. But both sites were closed that day of the week, and that info was readily available, right on web sites describing them. Also, the included meals (lunches in St. Pete, dinner in Moscow) were not what we asked for: light meals with some choices, so we could avoid things we didn't like and choose things we did like. My request was ignored; we were given full Russian meals with a fixed menu, no choice. On the first day, a fish dish was the entre, but I am allergic to fish. Fortunately, I had the e-mail I'd sent with me and showed it to the guide, and she was able to change my entre to chicken, which was very good actually. But we didn't want a 3-4 course lunches or dinner (in Moscow). We had the guide drop the lunch the third day, although we never got any credit or refund. But, particularly in contrast to the ship's tours, the prices were so reasonable we didn't worry too much about it.

The people who were on the ship's tour to Moscow saw us boarding the same train for which they were forced to queue up and wait on the way back, and asked us what we had done. I was candid and open so they were not happy when I explained what we had arranged and particularly what it had cost. Also, when we returned to the ship, we found they had laid on a late supper for those who had gone to Moscow, so up we went and had something. Well, it turns out the late supper was supposed to be just for those on the ship's tour, but we and others on 'independent' tours, there were a dozen or more of us, crashed the party, actually got there first, and they didn't realize it until the larger group arrived and there weren't enough tables/places set. By that time, the 'independents' had all gotten served and were eating; what could they do?

A couple from the larger group sat down with us and asked us about our tour, and they were the ones I told about our arrangement and its cost. They turned to others who’d been with them and announced the details, loudly enough so the whole room heard, which started a lot of bitching and complaining. I gathered they weren't very happy with the ship's tour to begin with, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. We finished up and beat it out of there, but overheard later that one of the excursion staff came to check on something and ran into a real mess. I caught a cold on the trip, which forced me to bed the second day following in Tallinn, so by the time we reappeared we heard about the contretemps' but apparently no one recalled who started it, thankfully.

Because of what happened to us, I would probably not use AllTravelRussia if I were to go again, or if I did, I would be sure to get confirmation of every detail of the tour. They do have good reviews generally, and we were certainly helped by their visa department and liked the guides and drivers. Their weakness, I say now with full 20:20 hindsight, is that once the sales person who plans the tour, sells it to you and collects your money, he (or she) transfers the plan to their Russia office for implementation; there is no follow-up to make sure it gets done right. And that is where our problems arose; we paid for a custom tour but got a standard package with a few destinations switched, and no one checked them out, even to see when they were open the day we were scheduled to go. If you check every detail that’s important to you, it should be OK, but that’s a hell of a way to have to do business, in my opinion.

Thank you for the 20/20 hindsight observation on your Russian tour operator, and better priced than the ship's excursion cost.

Thanks very much for the feedback.

We had the same experience as you so far as price. We originally booked a Viking Cruise but, hearing some things about the river cruises that made us unhappy, looked into other options. T-A-R cost the same or less than a cruise and had us in hotels for 11 days. We opted for the private tour. They have three tour levels, based on hotels. We originally opted for the four star as it did not cost much more than the three star hotels. Finally we decided to throw it all in and upgraded to five star. In Moscow we will be at the newly opened Kempinsky which is two blocks from Red Square. In St. Petersburg it is the Grand Hotel Europe, one of the most vaunted luxury hotels in Russia. Location is important for us as the tours use up only part of the day so being in the center of everything for our independent touring is important. As with many other cities, the less you pay, the farther out of the center of town you are.

We have been working with our salesman in D.C. and he seems to get back to us with the changes we want. He recently returned from Russia so is up on everything. When I asked they said they paid the full TA commission if I wanted so I got my usual TA on board so he is watching our back and giving us that extra level of comfort. He also set up our air, which I know pays him little or nothing, and got us business class for much less than T-A-R wanted for economy, though it took working for a while with a consolidator. He's happy to get his 10 percent on this trip without having booked it. He also took care of the trip insurance. We've been doing a lot of research on the CC sister site Trip Advisor and will write a report there. We will, I guess, become a source of info for CC members after having spent 5 days in Moscow and 6 in SP.

• 4 months later...

scubacruiserx2

Anybody considering a day trip to Moscow from St. Petersburg on the Sapsan may want to look at our travelogue filled with pictures.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1927687

Very informative. Thanks dor sharing. Jeff

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MIA   >  Archive   >  Mandel

Ernest Mandel

De gaulle’s trip to moscow.

Source: From World Outlook , 29 July, 1966, Volume 4, No. 24, Paris and New York City Written: July, 1966 Translated: by World Outlook Transcrition & Marked-up: by David Walters for the Marxists’ Internet Archive 2009. Public Domain: Creative Commons Common Deed . You can freely copy, distribute and display this work; as well as make derivative and commercial works. Please credit “Marxists Internet Archive” as your source, include the url to this work, and note any of the transcribers, editors & proofreaders above.

[The following article has been translated from the July 9 issue of the Belgian left socialist weekly La Gauche.]

“As to alliances, we would think that they ought to be constructed ‘in three stages’: a Franco-Russian treaty procuring a first degree of security; the Anglo-Soviet pact and an agreement to be concluded between France and Great Britain constituting a second degree; the future pact of the United Nations, in which America would be a capital element, crowning the whole and serving as the ultimate recourse.” It was in these terms that Charles de Gaulle in December 1944, at the time of his first trip to Moscow, defined his concepts concerning European security, according to his Memoirs. (Volume III, p. 83, “Livre de Foche” edition.) Many things indicate that he has not changed his mind twenty-two years later. Wasn’t his second trip to Moscow designed to advance this concept?

Those with a more dour outlook will immediately object. The head of the Fifth Republic had something much more Machiavellian in mind. What he is aiming at is the predominance of France in Europe, or at least Western Europe if he is unable to extend it “from the Atlantic to the Urals.”

Since France doesn’t have the necessary economic weight, it must neutralize the drive of German industry through military superiority and diplomatic ruses. Hence it has two interests in common with the Kremlin—to block the Bundeswehr from getting nuclear arms and to break the American grip on “little Europe.” Thus the trip to Moscow was a power play against Washington and Bonn.

No doubt these analysts are right on the long-range aims of the general. But the nature of things is such that the designs of men—no Tatter how imbued with their own “grandeur”—are not at all sufficient to shape the destiny of the world. This is determined by the relationship among the big social forces. More than once in history, the diplomatic maneuvers of a power that was too weak have ended in serving the ‘big ones” despite the best intentions in the world. Didn’t this happen once again with the trip to Moscow?

Thus in the United States, the most cunning, like the servile tools of the (Johnson administration, carefully refrained from denouncing the general. “De Gaulle in Moscow served the United States despite the United States,” said some. ‘He worked for the whole West,’ others said approvingly. In Bonn, after weeks of glacial chill, the barometer of Franco-German relations again points to “fair weather.”

The truth is that de Gaulle, contrary to the groundless fears of some, did not betray his West German class brothers any more than he did his Polish class brothers at the time of his first trip.

In December 1944, Stalin dangled a “good, firm alliance,” real support against the Anglo-Saxons, in return for immediate recognition of the Lublin committee. But de Gaulle was not deceived. This would moan betraying a perhaps ‘democratic’ but certainly bourgeois Poland in behalf of a perhaps despotic but certainly noncapitalist Poland. And he did not want to take responsibility for an act contrary to “honor and honesty.” (Memoirs, Volume III, p sa.)

In June 1966, Brezhnev and Kosygin dangled an offer of just as real support against the United States, even genuine political leadership in Europe. In exchange they asked for recognition of the German Democratic Republic; that is, “of the two German states.” Be Gaulle brusquely replied that there could be no question of recognizing this “artificial construction. And with that rejoinder the serious conversation came to an end. The balance was nothing but decorations and fine talk.

Of course, the differences between Paris and Washington, between Fans and Bonn, are real in relation to the political future of our continent, its relations with the United States and the best strategy to follow to block the rise of the anti-imperialist and anticapitalist forces in the world.

Be Gaulle seeks a Europe freed largely from American supremacy. He seeks an Atlantic alliance on the basis of equality between North America and a Western Europe combined under his guidance. He favors a more supple policy, with regard to the USSR, which in his opinion should be definitively separated from China and the “extremists” among the revolutionists of the Third World, through some indispensable concessions.

He holds that it is necessary to “relax” the tensions to be able to resolve the questions in dispute, such as the reunification of Germany, while the Americans and the Germans of Bonn maintain that without this reunification no real relaxation is possible in Europe. But at bottom, they all defend a common cause—the cause of Big Capital. They all seek to hold back the enemy—socialism and the peoples of the Third World who are rising and seeking to break out of the capitalist world market. They all seek refuge under the “nuclear umbrella” of the Pentagon, without which they cannot counterbalance Soviet military power on the European continent (if anything confirms this, it is the explosion of the ridiculous French nuclear device in Polynesia which amounts to nothing in face of the power of the USSR). The means may differ, the aim is the same.

In this respect the Soviet Union represents something else again. The means are perhaps the same, but the aim is entirely different. Thus treaties on mutual consultation can be concluded—even by means of a direct telephone line!—treaties on technical cooperation, or whatever cultural and commercial exchanges are desired; the fundamental opposition between the interests of the French bourgeoisie and the Soviet leaders will by no means make it possible to form a genuine alliance in the present world context.

The Soviet leaders are aware of the weakness of the present Communist parties in Western Europe (for which they are in part responsible). They are aware of the temporary stabilization of caitalism in this part of the world (which they largely contributed to). From this they draw the conclusion that it is necessary to return to a policy that seeks to ‘exploit the interimperialist contradictions,” as before the second world war. They commit an error in believing that de Gaulle is ready to follow them into a têtei-tête, when he seeks in reality only to increase his power and prestige within the Atlantic Alliance

The French Communist leaders would obviously make a still greater error in concluding that the time has come for an ‘agonizing revision” of their political orientation in France, as in 1935 or 1944.

It is true that the policy of the USSR places them before a cruel dilemma; they no longer know if they should applaud or complain when the Soviet crowds cheer the person who remains, until proved otherwise, the fiercest and most dangerous class enemy of the French workers. If they oppose him, they are tempted to make an alliance with de Gaulle’s pro-American adversaries like Nollet and Nitterrand—and then the capitals of Eastern Europe are not very contented. And if they approve, what remains of their role as an opposition in France? There remains the socialist perspective which stands in complete opposition to the politics of de Gaulle; but the leaders of the French Communist party do not think this is any more “realistic’ than do the Social Democratic leaders of the SF10, or even the technocratic ideologists of neocapitalism.

That will the practical results of the trip amount to? The American Newsweek summarized the situation as follows: “At least he will have succeeded in engaging the Russians in a new diplomatic dialogue with the West.” That puts it in a nutshell. At a time when the intensification of the American aggression against the Vietnamese people makes a public dialogue between Moscow and Washington more difficult, de Gaulle is playing, objectively, the role of go-between for the Atlantic Alliance as a whole Thanks to him, the head of one of the capitalist states in this alliance has been acclaimed by crowds in the Soviet Union. For the first time in many years they have been shown a face of capitalism which their own leaders now say is benevolent, attractive, peaceful, full of good intentions toward the peoples of the world.

Pravda in connection with this trip, talks about an ‘irreversible process.” Let them beware of certain processes, which while still reversible, bode nothing good for the USSR. By attending mass in Leningrad, de Gaulle, like a good politician, was already prepa:ing for his coming trip to Poland. Rumania, ceaselessly increasing its trade with the West, already told the Russians in Bucharest that it would like to see the Warsaw pact modified just as de Gaulle wants to modify NATO. Decidely, if things are in movement, thanks not a little to the general, not everything is stirring in favor of socialism and not everything is stirring against the interests of American imperialism.

Back to the Ernest Mandel Internet Archive

Last updated on 7 February 2009

© 2001 Matthew Brzezinski